Thanks Deb!

On Thu, Sep 4, 2025 at 11:51 AM Deb Cooley <[email protected]> wrote:

> It looks good.  I've cleared my discuss.  TYVM
>
> Deb
>
> On Wed, Sep 3, 2025 at 6:53 PM Rifaat Shekh-Yusef <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Deb,
>>
>> Are you happy with the latest version?
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-anima-brski-cloud/
>>
>> Is there anything else that we need to do for you to clear your DISCUSS
>> on this document?
>>
>> Regards,
>>  Rifaat
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 27, 2025 at 7:07 PM Deb Cooley <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> It is much clearer and simpler.  I like it better.  Thanks.
>>>
>>> Deb
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 27, 2025 at 4:58 PM Owen Friel (ofriel) <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Deb – what do you think of this PR? It completely refactors and
>>>> greatly simplifies section 8.2:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://github.com/anima-wg/brski-cloud/pull/257/files
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Deb Cooley <[email protected]>
>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday 26 August 2025 21:00
>>>> *To:* Michael Richardson <[email protected]>
>>>> *Cc:* The IESG <[email protected]>; [email protected];
>>>> [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]
>>>> *Subject:* Re: Deb Cooley's Discuss on
>>>> draft-ietf-anima-brski-cloud-16: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> w/ [DC] below.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Aug 26, 2025 at 3:27 PM Michael Richardson <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Deb Cooley <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>     > 1.  Section 8.2: I'm still struggling with finding the point
>>>> here.  I'd
>>>>     > like to be a bit more cohesive.  State the issues/recommendations
>>>> up
>>>>     > front (i.e tell a story).  It looks like you are claiming that
>>>> the end
>>>>     > customer 'has to' run a private PKI, the manufacturer 'could' run
>>>> a
>>>>     > private PKI for the whole thing, or the manufacturer 'could' use
>>>> some
>>>>     > subset of Web PKI Trust Anchors (which you call something else).
>>>> I've
>>>>     > tried to do the 'use the public WebPKI' part below.
>>>>
>>>> RFC8995 (BRSKI) is for end customers that want to enroll a device into
>>>> their
>>>> private PKI (in a zero-touch way).
>>>> So I really don't understand what you are complaining about here.
>>>> There are options.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [DC]  Outline the options in a clear and logical fashion.  Preferably
>>>> without jumping around too much.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 8.2 is about the tussle between being inclusive and reducing attack
>>>> surface.
>>>>
>>>> Manufacturers that want to install IDevID into the devices (which BRSKI
>>>> requires), already MUST have a private PKI for that.  The conflicting
>>>> lifetime
>>>> requirements prevent using a "Web PKI Trust Anchor".
>>>> (There is also a SAN contents struggle, but there are workarounds for
>>>> that)
>>>>
>>>> Is "Web PKI Trust Anchor" (set) even a well-defined term?
>>>> It's not a single set, as much as people would like to think it is.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [DC] that is absolutely correct.  Google, Apple, Mozilla, Microsoft,
>>>> and many more (Adobe, Oracle, etc) all run Trust Anchor lists.  So saying
>>>> that one can just use it (like there is only one) is odd, at best.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> AFAIK, CABFORUM does not define it, web browser and OS vendors decide
>>>> on a
>>>> case-by-case basis (based upon criteria established by CABFORUM), if
>>>> they will
>>>> accept any specific anchor into their trusted set.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [DC] Right, the owners of the trust anchor lists may listen to CA/B
>>>> Forum, but they aren't beholden to them.  They add the roots that they
>>>> 'trust' when the rules that they set are satisfied.  This is why you don't
>>>> want to go down this rabbit hole.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     > 2.  Section 8.2, last three paras: These are actually just three
>>>>     > sentences.  Let's see if we can make a paragraph out of them.
>>>> Put the
>>>>     > last sentence first, and second sentence second, and first
>>>> sentence
>>>>     > last.  Something like: "It is recommended for Manufacturers to
>>>> work
>>>>     > with their VARs to determine if there is a subset of publicly
>>>> trusted
>>>>     > (Web) PKI Trust Anchors that would satisfy all their VARs, and to
>>>> ship
>>>>     > only that subset.  Manufacturers need to include enough trust
>>>> anchors
>>>>     > in their devices (the Pledges) so that all expected Cloud
>>>> Registrar's
>>>>     > can be validated.  While there is no requirement that Cloud
>>>> Registrar's
>>>>     > certificates are part of the public (WebPKI) Trust Anchors, it is
>>>>     > likely simpler and cheaper for most such systems to use these
>>>> easily
>>>>     > obtained certificates."
>>>>
>>>> okay, I'll see wehat we can do.
>>>>
>>>>     > Nits: 8.1, para 2: 'device.is sheltered'/'device is sheltered .
>>>> 8.2,
>>>>     > para 3: 'operate enough of a private PKI'/'operate a private PKI'
>>>>
>>>> okay.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> ]               Never tell me the odds!                 | ipv6 mesh
>>>> networks [
>>>> ]   Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works        |    IoT
>>>> architect   [
>>>> ]     [email protected]  http://www.sandelman.ca/        |   ruby on
>>>> rails    [
>>>>
>>>>
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