AsburyCouple, did you RTFA? I said quite clearly I love dogs and abhor dog fighting. If you above me are the animal lover, where is your outrage at the rest of the world's animal killing? That's what I'm pointing out in the column, that hypocrisy.
Apparantly the column isn't about me; it seems to be about you. Below I print the column in the Press today. The writer makes many of the same points about the hypocricy I did. How about you Jack and Mario call her and tell her how terrible she is like you've tried to do to me today? By the way, she referes to my view as a "far left wing" view, proving once again that you Jack and Mario have a limited world view (you call me neocon after reading the same view): Vick case stirs debate over value of dogs versus people Posted by the Asbury Park Press on 09/2/07 BY SUSAN RUSSELL For five seconds, the horrors of the Michael Vick dogfighting scandal seemed crystal clear. Americans know an atrocity when they see one. Then the competition began. It's people versus animals, went the refrain. Compassion must be rationed. It's either/or. Hot air from conservatives? Not really. More like a cold wind from the left. Kindness is a vanishing American virtue at least for the chattering classes. It seems the more interest groups there are, the less genuine kindness there is. Perhaps acute specialization breeds selfishness only we matter! hardening the heart to everyone and everything else. And so it was that a cadre of liberal talking heads and columnists belittled widespread outrage over dogfighting. Each touted his or her own cause and species as more deserving of the outrage. A few appeared more outraged by public compassion for dogs than by dogfighting itself. "Mere dogs," they sniffed. "What about people?" Sandy Kobrin is a regular contributor to Women's eNews, and, presumably, a feminist. Deeply offended, Kobrin wrote: "Beat a woman? Play on. Beat a dog? You're gone. What could possibly account for this bizarre situation? The anti-animal-abuse lobby, meanwhile, is going after Vick with all four paws." When the least powerful among us are viewed as competitors for attention, for compassion, for funds we've become very small indeed. One would think that in a nation that slaughters nearly 10 billion animals a year for food, kills another 30 million a year for amusement and destroys untold millions of unwanted dogs and cats every year, it shouldn't be too trying to give brutalized dogs their day. Shouldn't the progressive mantra of respect apply not only to chosen groups of people, but also to persecuted animals and the human beings who work to protect them? If any of the commentators so morbidly offended by the outpouring of sympathy for dogs over people didn't take a sustained stand against athletes beating women, they are hypocrites squared. Likewise, interests who are usually judgmental and quick to assign blame looked the other way. Dogs? What dogs? According to Vick's apologists, he made a vague "mistake." One columnist wrote that "Michael Vick was crucified" even after the football player pleaded guilty. All forgot to mention the tortured dogs. Such stilted ethics are light years behind humanity's greatest thinkers and philosophers. Pythagoras, Seneca, Plutarch, Da Vinci, Voltaire, Paine, Montaigne, Twain, Tolstoy, Locke, Darwin, Hugo, Zola, Schopenhauer, Einstein and so many others were impassioned advocates for animals, as well as for humans. "The love for all living creatures is the most noble attribute of man," wrote Charles Darwin. Thomas Edison said, "Nonviolence leads to the highest ethics, which is the goal of all evolution. Until we stop harming all other living beings, we are savages." "I am in favor of animal rights as well as human rights," wrote Abraham Lincoln. "That is the way of a whole human being." What children, men, women and thousands of pit bulls have in common is that they are daily victims of insensate, burgeoning violence. Given the documented link between violence against animals and violence against humans, is there any clearer sign that the circle of compassion, as Albert Schweitzer called it, must include both? Humanitarians of all stripes, for all species, must make education inculcating nonviolence and kindness toward humans and animals a priority, in cities where violence against humans, dogfighting and cockfighting flourish, and in rural areas where animal fighting is entrenched. Authorities say crimes of cruelty are nearing a crisis stage. Behind a Tallahassee, Fla., home last month, police found dozens of starving, wounded pit bulls feared too far gone to be helped. Days before, deputy sheriffs uncovered a mass grave of 28 roosters, cockfighting weapons and $25,000 in cash. In New Jersey, Trenton, parts of Salem County, Paterson and other areas are on the grid. Until the Vick case, enforcement of animal fighting laws was rare. Now, cruelty enforcement is on the upswing, with new cases breaking every week. The venality of dogfighting isn't limited to gansta rap or to famous football stars. It cuts across racial lines. A 1998 undercover investigation of dogfighting in the U.S. found that the participants were generally poor, usually rural and "overwhelmingly white." We know and love dogs. It is their proximity to us that makes them lovable. We don't know the panicked animals forced to endure killing and bleeding floors in slaughterhouses. They are the untouchables, deliberately kept out of sight, out of mind. How many kind, well- meaning people condemned dogfighting, then sat down to a fat, juicy steak from a steer who, given the odds, was skinned alive, and who, to paraphrase Thoreau, held his life by the same tenure we do? The bottom line: If breeding "man's best friends" to rip each other apart to cheers and jeers then drowning and electrocuting the broken, bleeding "underperformers" didn't shock the conscience of most, albeit not all, Americans, we'd be in trouble. Fortunately, most Americans and the media got this one right. The bean counters might ponder the lesson. Susan Russell, Little Silver, is a lobbyist, researcher and writer on animal issues. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "asburycouple" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > So the fact that he was running a gambling ring and financing the > entire operation doesn't bother you at all? > > The fact that he enjoyed engaging in torture doesn't bother you (oh > sorry, you're a neocon so that one probably doesn't bother you) > > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "justifiedright" > <justifiedright@> wrote: > > > > The AP Press ran a column today that raised the same issue about > how > > we treat humans and animals in association with the Vick > > controversey. > > > > Yes, I say let him play football, since the rule in the NFL is > that > > there is no lifetime ban for killing people (see Little and Lewis). > > > > Imagine how their victim's families will feel if Vick gets a > > lifetime ban while those 2 guys didn't. > > > > Aren't you offended by that hypocrisy? > > > > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Hinge" <hinge98@> wrote: > > > > > > No Tommy, the columns title is about Vick. You say let him play > > football. End of story. > > > Somehow, you managed to forget that fact. Yes, you did write > about > > hypocrisy, and it's > > > remotely possible that you raised some actual points, but you > > still hooked people in with > > > the headline about letting Vick play football. End of story in > my > > opinion. Everything else > > > you wrote just made it more laughable and deplorable at the same > > time. Just like you did > > > about Clearwater. I'm sure your Vick article won't have the > effect > > you desired, and it'll > > > probably help to shrink your fan base (if you think you have one) > > > > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "justifiedright" > > <justifiedright@> wrote: > > > > > > > > AsburyCouple I'm really at a loss as to how the Vick column > > could be > > > > about me, or how it could even be controversial at all, let > > alone > > > > the controversy being the plan. > > > > > > > > All the column points out (as animal rights advocates have > > pointed > > > > out for years) is that in this world, we treat animals > > as "special" > > > > or "not special" or "protected" or "not protected" based on > our > > own > > > > needs of the animals, not based upon anything inherent in the > > animal. > > > > > > > > Like it or not, that creates a hypocrisy. When Vick kills his > > dogs, > > > > we are offended. Are we offended for the animal? If so, why > > not be > > > > offended at killing other dogs or other animals, which > happends > > all > > > > the time? > > > > > > > > If humans thought of dogs as special, we would abhor the > killing > > of > > > > any dog, as we would the killing of any human, but we don't. > > Our > > > > reactions seem to be based upon our view of the killing, not > the > > > > animal's view of it. If our sympathy truly was with the > animal, > > we > > > > would hate all killing of animals, hunting included. > > > > > > > > Yes that dove-tails into the argument of who possesses a > soul. > > Yes > > > > it dove-tails into the abortion argument, since a fetus is a > > > > vertebrate mammal in the animal kingdom, and in some people's > a > > > > opinion, more important than a dog. > > > > > > > > I don't see how pointing out the hypocrisy makes the column > > about > > > > me. > > > > > > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "asburycouple" > > <asburycouple@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Because an article about real issues with a reasonable point > > of > > > > view > > > > > will spark a debate but not make him the center of > attention. > > By > > > > > taking such an extreme and ridiculous argument as his Vick > > > > article - > > > > > or for that matter insert most of his POV's - Tom himself > > becomes > > > > > the focal point and the argument becomes about him rather > than > > > > about > > > > > the issue. That's just how he likes it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, MarioAPNJ@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 9/2/2007 11:54:23 A.M. Eastern Daylight > > > > Time, > > > > > > asburycouple@ writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > Honestly I don't even thing Tommy believes half of > > > > > > what he writes here or in the TCN. I think he just gets > > off on > > > > > > saying things he knows will piss people off. > > > > > > > > > > > > But why not put that column to more responsible use, > > especially > > > > > for AP. > > > > > > Weeks ago, he was so hot to join the surveillance system > > > > > bandwagon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************************************** Get a sneak peek of > > the > > > > all- > > > > > new AOL at > > > > > > http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! 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