If everyone celebrates the event and it should be funded (if money
is available). 4th of July - sure. Kwanza should be grouped with the
rest of the December holidays for 1 big party. Happy Holidaze,
Asbury Style! Columbus Day - How much does it really cost? How much
money are we really talking about??? So far the Kwanza expense seems
to be 50 pieces of copy paper. Is it really worth spending hours on
this over $50?
I think it better debate would be: How do we improve the image of
Asbury Ave from the circle to Main street.
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "justifiedright"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Mark thanks first for joing the discussion.
>
> I see though as Mr. Keady took the time to highlight my
grammatical
> error, you repeat it as well.
>
> You ask if I have "facts to back up my question." I understand a
> statement to need to be backed up with facts, but isn't a question
a
> request for facts?
>
> I'll try anyway to further the discussion. Upon repair of my
> grammatical error, the question is as follows:
>
> "Would you also be opposed to public resources spent on the Pride
> Parade?"
>
> I ask the question to further highlight that some cultural events
> are being funded (like Kwanzaa), while others are not (like Pride).
>
> It appears to me Asbury Park, which so emotionally shouts its
worth
> through diversity and tolerance is actually making value judgments
> about groups and funding them (or in keady's case, railing against
> them from the dais) based upon judgments made about the group.
>
> How exceedingly intolerant.
>
> Mark I've given you the benefit of discussing your point. I hope
> you will reciprocate and discuss the varied treatment of Columbus
> Day, Kwanzaa, Pride and Chrsitmas by Mr. Keady and the rest of
City
> government.
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "mark07712" <mark07712@> wrote:
> >
> > JR - You missed the councilman's question. Do you have any facts
> to
> > back up your question????
> >
> > "Do you also opposed to public resources spent on the Pride
> Parade?"
> >
> > Your grammar is a bit off here, but I get your point. As far as I
> > recall, there were not public resources spent on the Pride
Parade,
> it
> > was an event that was financed by a non-profit entity and they
> > applied for permits the same as any other outside group would. Do
> > you have facts to the contrary?
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "justifiedright"
> > <justifiedright@> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "jwkeady" <james.keady@>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Mr. Deseno,
> > > >
> > > > I never ceases to amaze me how someone like yourself, who
> makes
> > > >their
> > > > living in a profession that demands factual basis for
> argument,
> > has
> > > > such a disdain for accurate and truthful statements.
> > >
> > > Mr. Keady, must you start off personalizing?
> > >
> > > Speaking of, I note that twice you remark about my grammar in
> the
> > > post below. I've said many times I post here for leisure. I
> have
> > > jobs where grammar and spelling are important, and this isn't
> one
> > of
> > > them.
> > >
> > > Also when I come across someone not to my own standard for
> > grammar,
> > > never would I take him or her to task for it in public. I
treat
> > > people with dignity and respect.
> > >
> > > Since it appears important to you though, should you ever wish
> to
> > > engage in a contest where proper grammar in writing is the
> score,
> > > just let me know when and where the game begins.
> > >
> > > Now on to substance.
> > >
> > > You said this:
> > >
> > > > You wrote:
> > > >
> > > > "So you don't think the City should expend any money on
> cultural
> > > > events."
> > > >
> > > > I never said this. Please go back to my previous email and
> > > >document
> > > > where I made this statement. I was clear about religious
and
> > > pseudo-
> > > > religious events. I also was clear about why I took issue
> with
> > a
> > > > specific cultural event, Columbus Day.
> > >
> > > Oh I see, Mr. Keady. You hide your objection to Kwanzaa
> on "quasi-
> > > religious." So you disagree with many on this board (as well
as
> > Ron
> > > Karenga's Kwanzaa website) that it is neither religious nor a
> > > replacement for religion.
> > >
> > > Fear not though - the folks on this board who see you in
Messiah-
> > like
> > > fashion will not score their disagreement against you. They
> will
> > > just use it as an excuse to rail at me at the mere thought of
> > having
> > > to disagree with you.
> > >
> > > Religious vs Cultural aside, I understand you to stand against
> he
> > > City's expenditure of funds for Kwanzaa.
> > >
> > > As I understand you, the reason you go public on the dais
> against
> > > Columbus Day and not Kwanzaa is that you feel the full story
> about
> > > Columbus is not told. You think of him poorly.
> > >
> > > Let's put aside that I've alerted you to all the "bad"
> information
> > we
> > > have about Columbus came from his arch-rival, De Bobadilla,
> whose
> > > claims were debunked back in his own time (yet resurrected
today
> > by
> > > those who wish American history was bad). We can argue that
> again
> > > next October.
> > >
> > > Right now I'm interested in your excuse for bashing just my
> > culture
> > > as opposed to others.
> > >
> > > You say it is because we don't teach the bad parts of Columbus.
> > >
> > > Well, Ron Karenga the founder of Kwanzaa, was convicted of
> > kidnapping
> > > and torturing two minority women, beating them with cords,
> putting
> > > hot irons in their mouths and making them drink detergent. A
> > > shocking display of misogyny, cowardice, power, lack of
> compassion
> > > and inhumane action (WWJD?).
> > >
> > > If your excuse for railing against Columbus each year is we
> should
> > > include his bad story in our Columbus celebration, why do you
> not
> > > rail with equal vigor that we include Dr. Karenga's
horribleness
> > in
> > > the Kwanzaa celebration?
> > >
> > > Please tell me you have some legitimate excuse to clear up
this
> > > glaringly hypocritical position?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Oh by the way - the Catholic Church financed much of Columbus'
> > trip.
> > > Did you rail against the church when we were trying to become
a
> > > Deacon?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > As I shared in my earlier email, I do not support the City's
> > > > expending of any tax-dollars on Christmas, so, your above
> > question
> > > >to
> > > > me is moot.
> > >
> > >
> > > Then what about your thoughts on the private entity, the
> Chamber,
> > > making a decision to excise the name "Christmas" from their
> > > celebration while still using trees with lights, stars,
wrapped
> > > presents and Santa Claus?
> > >
> > > Do you support the co-opting of culture and changing its name?
> > >
> > >
> > > > On a more personal level, as a fellow Christian, I do not
> think
> > > >that
> > > > we need the State to edify (by celebrating Christmas) our
> > counter-
> > > > cultural commitments to following the "Good News" of a
> radical,
> > > > itinerant preacher from Galilee (Jesus). When it comes to
> this,
> > I
> > > > think the sage advice of St. Francis of Assisi is worthy of
> > > > consideration. Francis said, "Preach the Gospel at all
times
> > and
> > > > when necessary use words."
> > >
> > >
> > > I seem to recall denying Jesus 3 times before the cock crows
> being
> > a
> > > bad thing too.
> > >
> >
>
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