> *** That is not something to apologize for. However
> some of the issues I have been speaking about are
> fundamental to all engineering fields. That is why I
> am more than a bit surprised by your unfamiliarity.
> It goes to show that even an IIT software
> engineering graduate( that is only an educated
> guess) like yourself are quite oblivious of what
> other engineers do or are expected to be able to do,
> in the Indian context and not necessarily for
> exporting them to serve the needs of developed
> countries.
-- Your Educated guess did not click ..... forget
about IIT, strictly speaking, I am not at all a
engineer .... did my B Sc from Cotton and MCA from AEC
and somehow managed a fairly decent job and surviving
...... just another "susuri musuri pass kora" case.
However, I do not think it takes an engineer to
understand that a bridge might collapse for n - number
of reasons including design, poor construction, poor
management etc.
BUT the point is with Creative Bright Engineers and
all the Checks and Balances that you never stop
talking about none of these failures should ideally
happen. Since the bridge has collapsed , either the
engineers are NOT Bright enough OR there are some
holes in your "checks & balances". Do you think there
are other possible reasons?
I am not sure if IIT Engineers are Expected to Design
a Bamboo Bridge and who set those expectations.
Unfortunately, India does not run on expectations set
by you. As I mentioned earlier, you have NO knowledge
on today's India. Because these Engineers did not
listen to your suggestions, the Indian GDP is
improving leaps and bounds.
Santanu-da can probably explain why the US Dollar is
sharply getting devalued against Indian Rupee.
> That brings us back to your questions and responses.
> They are all over the place, and while I can and
> would be pleased to respond them, it would be far
> better to first pin down WHAT exactly it is that you
> are trying to prove or disprove with your
> inquisition.
>
> I realize you disagree with some of what I wrote.
> But it also musty have caused you concern that the
> gullible or the uninformed may believe what I wrote.
> Thus your attempts to set the record straight, if
> not redeem Indian honors in areas that you must
> consider sullied by my observations. Question is
> WHAT are those areas ?
Looks like you want to avoid answering these since
then you might have to eat up some of your words on
Indian Engineers. I would not insist you to answer
these.
First, I have ABSOLUTELY NO concern that "the
gullible or the uninformed may believe what you wrote"
.... you know it very well that you have no takers in
AssamNet.
Regarding "those areas" just wanted to see your views
on HOW such disasters can happen in a country which
produces ALL Creative Engineers (however at least one
creative engineer that I know was imported from India)
and which boasts of "Checks and Balances"
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> At 5:20 PM -0700 8/6/07, Krishnendu Chakraborty
> wrote:
> Hi C'da
>
> >Let me first say --- I am not a
> Architect/Strcutural
> >Engineer or Civil Engineer .... so pardon my
> ignorance
> >in this field
>
>
> *** That is not something to apologize for. However
> some of the issues I have been speaking about are
> fundamental to all engineering fields. That is why I
> am more than a bit surprised by your unfamiliarity.
> It goes to show that even an IIT software
> engineering graduate( that is only an educated
> guess) like yourself are quite oblivious of what
> other engineers do or are expected to be able to do,
> in the Indian context and not necessarily for
> exporting them to serve the needs of developed
> countries.
>
> That brings us back to your questions and responses.
> They are all over the place, and while I can and
> would be pleased to respond them, it would be far
> better to first pin down WHAT exactly it is that you
> are trying to prove or disprove with your
> inquisition.
>
> I realize you disagree with some of what I wrote.
> But it also musty have caused you concern that the
> gullible or the uninformed may believe what I wrote.
> Thus your attempts to set the record straight, if
> not redeem Indian honors in areas that you must
> consider sullied by my observations. Question is
> WHAT are those areas ?
>
> I will respond to them once you pin them down.
>
> Take care.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Coming to your points ---
>
> > Did *I* make those assertions about the
> > qualifications or even implied them about who
> > might have designed the bridge, or how good they
> > were in math? How do you know who
> > designed it? What if it was designed by some very
> > creative East Pakistani structural engineer
> > trained at BE college, like Fazlur Khan, who
> > developed the structural system for the
> > Sears Towers? What then?
>
>
> ----- Thanks for admiting that East Pakistani
> Engineers too can be CREATIVE .... I guess you will
> have similar view on Indian Engineers as well who
> did
> not move out of India but contributing in India.
>
>
> If this Engineer was "Bright and Creative" Engineer
> educated in India your earlier assertion that Indian
> education does not encourage Creativity is
> incorrect,
> If this Engineer was "not bright and creative" your
> land of "checks and balances" still lacks some
> checks
> .... right?
>
> > I thought you are an engineer. But from the
> > comments you make and the questions you ask, I
> must
> > have been wrong. Anyway, a bridge's integrity is
> > not the function of just its design alone. The
> math
> > skills of the designer hardly enter the equation.
> > Most structural elements fail not because of
> design,
> > but
> > for a variety of other factors, most notably due
> to
> > poor construction practices , which is a result of
> > incompetent management, human failures, sometimes
> > corruption--as in India,
>
> 1) So Checks and Balances does not help ?? I
> thought
> poor construction practices, incompetent management
> etc are ALL just Indian characteristics.
>
> 2) Corruption DOES NOT happen only in India but here
> in your adopted homeland too. Big Dig issue
> happened
> because of Corruption and not human failure(your
> information is incorrect
> at best or twisted at worst). And BTW, in Big Dig
> too only a couple of mid level managers have been
> convicted while the big shots went scott free ....
> how
> very Indian !!
>
>
> Whoever was overseeing the
> > logistics of the material delivery either did not
> > have any knowledge of structures and load bearing
> > capacity of a structure or was asleep at the
> wheel.
>
>
> So, the bright young Grads did not have knowledge
> ...what am I missing ... where are your checks and
> balances
>
> > The point I am trying to make here is that DESIGN
> is
> > only a small factor in these cases. At any event,
> > MOST structural design is not a result of creative
> > engineering: they are dictated by standards and
> > codes
> > and budgets. Most day-to-day structural
> engineering
> > in the USA is done not by highly skilled
> engineers,
> > but by 'designers', who are vocational tech.
> school
> > graduates with high school degrees,
>
> It was you who mentioned that Creative American
> Engineers contribute to Nation Building and Indian
> Engineers have zero contribution in Nation Building.
>
> By Nation Building , I thought building
> infrastructure
> which includes Bridges, Roads, Power Plants etc.
> Let
> me know what exactly you mean by Nation Building.
> Do you mean that these structural engineers who are
> vocational tech school graduates are incompetent or
> not Bright and Creative enough ??
>
>
> > *** Can these be compared? Not if anyone is even
> > remotely familiar with the issues. An Indian
> > structural engineer could be a math genius and
> could
> > mentally analyze the stress of a rocket ships nose
> > cone at re-entry. But its usefulness in the Indian
> > context is zip, zero, nada.
>
> Was it you or some American Engineer who built the
> Bridges and skyscrappers in India ? Sorry did not
> know that ......
>
> But anyway I can say from my field. I am working
> for
> a 100% Indian IT company and our company has a
> Banking
> Software which is Number 1 Banking Software in World
> for 4 consecutive years ..... and all these
> developed
> by "not so creative" Indian Engineers. I can vouch
> that we did not take help from Chandan Mahanta or
> some
> "Bright Creative American Engineer".
>
> > An IIT PhD in structural engineering could design
> > US skyscrapers with ease, but won't be able to
> > design a temporary bridge using bamboo and timber
> if
> > their life depended on it. Why? Because the
> building
> > materials, their quality standards and installed
> > elements' quality can be and are tested and
> > trustworthy in the USA. But the quality of
>
> An IIT PhD can (and I am sure has) also designed
> Indian Skyscrapers and Bridges which does not
> collapse
> in less then 50 years.
> Coming to the point of Bamboo bridge etc, can a MIT
> electronic Engineer fix a TV set or Radio ?
> No ...... Every training/teaching has its
> boundaries.
>
> In US (also in India), every company, even in IT
> sector has something called HelpDesk which helps
> them
> in setting up PC, installing software, networking
> etc.
> Most of these people are diploma engineers. Why do
> you think the Bright Creative Engineers cannot setup
>
=== message truncated ===
____________________________________________________________________________________
Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's
Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when.
http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/222
_______________________________________________
assam mailing list
assam@assamnet.org
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
