C'da, > *** Ram, Ram, Ram! You must have really been stung by my piece that > day, for you to keep trying to pin the arguments back on me.
heh! heh! heh!. I was just observing, who other than an NRA(Hindu) would sell a cow to a muslim buyer, knowing full well its headed to the glue factory. Not that its bad to trade with people of other faiths. A true farmer would only sell because he needed to survive. > You know, 'sung-sai-xwpa-diya' is a fine khrakhowa art. undoubtly this is a fine art. But methinks the xwpa in this case has not been airtight 'aru dhila xwpa di laab nai' . :-) --Ram -- On 5/2/05, Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > At 3:41 PM -0500 5/2/05, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > > > >If cows are so dear to Hindus, why do Hindus sell cows and that too to > >> Muslims >knowing well that they may be slaughtered? > > > >Maybe he was an NRA/NRI who is above such mundane things of figuring > >out what the fate of the cow would be :-) > > *** Ram, Ram, Ram! You must have really been stung by my piece that > day, for you to keep trying to pin the arguments back on me. Not that > it is an impossibility, that someone can turn the tables on me using > my own arguments or comments, but you are doing it very > ineffectively. I am very careful about firing my weapons. I compute > their possible return path trajectories before I release them. > > You know, 'sung-sai-xwpa-diya' is a fine khrakhowa art. You can't > just throw it around hoping something, somehow, sometime, will stick. > You were obviously not told that each misdirected attempt has a > penalty. Not only do you not score, you also lose points. So it is > not a good idea to take the 'bere-saale-kwbwa' approach. > > c-da :-) :-) :-) :-) > > > >--Ram > > > > > >On 5/2/05, Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> From inside the troublemaker's box, I think the idea is a good one. > >> > >> In fact the point was touched upon in the Tehelka piece, though not in > >> terms > >> of raising Muslim cattle for meat. The seller is a Hindu, and he was > >> imprisoned by the police, but not the Bajrang Dal terrorists who attacked > >> the buyers. > >> > >> >If cows are so dear to Hindus, why do Hindus sell cows and that too to > >> Muslims >knowing well that they may be slaughtered? > >> > >> *** Good question. It also points to the hypocrisy embedded in the issue. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> At 12:12 PM -0700 5/2/05, Dilip/Dil Deka wrote: > >> If I recall correctly, the cow or cows in this case were sold by a Hindu > >> seller to a Muslim buyer. If cows are so dear to Hindus, why do Hindus > >> sell > >> cows and that too to Muslims knowing well that they may be slaughtered? > >> If the Hindus would not sell cows, the beef eaters would have to raise > >> their > >> own cattle for slaughtering and hopefully the inter-community trade and > >> ensuing complications would stop. May be that will satisfy both parties > >> till > >> they find something else to fight over. > >> > >> I realize this is not a solution to the millenia old feud between Hindus > >> and > >> Muslims in India. I am just thinking outside the box on the cow > >> protection/slaughter issue. Any other "Gosot Goru utha" thoughts? > >> Dilip > >> > >> Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Hi Umesh: > >> > >> > >> My apologies for not reading your note carefully enough. > >> > >> I let myself to be carried away by your opening the Catholic and Hindu > >> comparisons, even though it was in a different context and had nothing to > >> do > >> with the subject matter under discussion. > >> > >> Bajrang Dal's terrorism perpetrated on the father and son duo of Muslim > >> cattle traders had nothing to do with attempts to perpetuate feudal > >> controls > >> by landowners using the politics of religion either in India or in > >> Central > >> America. > >> > >> >I stated some facts -common to ALL faiths > >> > >> *** It has nothing to do with faith but everything to do with using > >> religion > >> to advance or perpetuate political power, like Rajen explained. > >> > >> c-da > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> At 8:06 PM +0100 5/1/05, umesh sharma wrote: > >> C-da, > >> > >> > >> I think you need a good sleep, I never made any of the suggestions you are > >> suggesting I authored. I stated some facts -common to ALL faiths and all > >> sorts of class conflicts. > >> > >> You'd better re-read what we both wrote. > >> > >> > >> Umesh > >> > >> Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Ram: > >> > >> > >> I understand the urge to try and use a set of pre-owned arguments off > >> the shelf to reply to some unpleasant news in a hurry. If it fits, > >> fine. No harm done. > >> But if it does not fit, it could look rather awkward, as it does in > >> this instance :-). > >> > >> >***If only they could be--- > >> > >> Those were from a response to certain recommendations made in Assam Net. > > > > >> In this case, I don't know that anybody has made any recommendation, > >> or even commented on them. I just posted it for Netters' information. > >> No doubt judgements were made by the desis themselves,Tehelka. If the > > > editorial part hurt, a rebuttal is always possible. > >> > >> Can ex-pat desis make some recommendations to the Kannadi culprits? > >> I am sure some could be found to lecture them. > >> > >> Would it mean anything? > >> Take a wild guess :-). > >> > >> But on the other hand: > >> > >> Is it a blot on these people's ethics and their civilization? > >> Yes. > >> Does it reflect o! n their faith? > >> Yes. > >> Does it reflect on all who identify themselves as Hindus? > >> No, never! > >> Does it indicate an absence of the rule of law? > >> Yes. > >> Can and do these happen in other parts of India ? > >> Yes. But not everywhere. > >> Should I or anyone else feel guilty about it? > >> That would depend on if I or others identify with anything that > >> was involved. > >> I don't. I have no feeling of guilt or responsibility. > >> What about others? > >> If the shoes fit, they would have to wear them. > >> > >> Do I have responsibility to make any recommendation? > >> Not on your life. > >> Are there others who have such a responsibility? > >> That is for them to decide. If they have a tradition to uphold, > >> they may. If there is pattern to their reactions, and they wish > >> to maintain it, it is their choice. > >> > >> What does Umesh's comments mean? > >> Since Catholics in Central America do similar thin! gs,as he claims, > >> their religion is no better than the Kannadi culprits' version > >> of Hinduism. > >> Where did the need for this comparison come from? > >> I am not sure, but it must be from a deep seated inferiority complex > >> about his own faith, Hinduism, that he harbors. And since he identifies > >> with all those who sport Hinduism, his feeling of guilt is > >> troubling him. Or maybe he shares the political beliefs of the > >> Bajrang Dal terrorists. > >> > >> Should he though? I mean do ALL those who sport a Hindu identity have > >> to share in the guilt of transgressions by some, like these Kannadi > >> culprits? > >> > >> That depends on whether he believes in individuality and > >> individual responsibility. I have seen many fine and educated people > >> people from India, who are so deeply confused, that they are > >> ready and willing to demonize everyone who share an identity--national > >> , cultural or religious, for the sins of a few and hold all > >> responsible. > >> > >> For example, those ! who massacred Sikhs pursuant to Indira Gandhi's > >> assassination by her Sikh secu! rity guards. Or Gujaratis who massacred > >> Muslims after Godhra. Or those who hold ALL Muslims responsible for > >> the crimes of the violent fundamentalist segments. Or those who hold > >> > >> the present day Muslims of India responsible for the atrocities of > >> Mughal invaders. > >> > >> So on and so forth. > >> > >> > >> What do you think Ram? Am I off target :-)? > >> > >> c-da > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> At 9:43 AM -0500 5/1/05, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > >> >C'da, > >> > > >> >>For What? Hajabba (left) and Hassanabba at the hands of the mob ( In > >> >the >Tehelka Website, two people on the ground, naked- cm) > >> > > >> >This should never have happened. This is a shame. > >> > > >> >Don't you think these 'uneducated, barbaric villagers' ought to be > >> >re-educated by NRIs/NRAs? > >> > > >> >** > >> >***If only they could be like the ones who fled from Assam(India), who > >> have > >> to > >> >fight for their existence in far-off foreign lands like the USA, UK > >> >etc. every day, where they cannot get any protection from the police, > >> >where they have no chance of getting justice from the courts in their > >> >lifetimes, ! where corruption/crime/barbaric rituals run rampant in all > >> >spheres of life, > >> >where they have no protection against local 'dadas' who could > >> >intimidate them anytime, any place--one can go on and on! > >> > > >> >I think you are so right. Go ahead and give these adha-mora ( > >> >half-dead), coward Oxomiyas(Kanadiga village bumkins) the verbal uttom > >> >modhyom like they deserve. After all we have earned it, with our own > >> >successes against the unimaginable odds, haven't we? ******* > >> > > >> >:-) :-) Just substituted a few key words > >> > > >> >--Ram > > > > > >> > > >> > > >> >On 5/1/05, Chan Mahanta wrote: > >> >> > >> >> Barbaric India > >> >> > >> >>! ; THEIR SHAME, OUR SHAME > >> >> > >> >> Rightwing activists strip two people for buying cattle > >> >> > >> >> By Chinmayee Manjunath > > > >> Udupi, Karnataka > >> >> For What? Hajabba (left) and Hassanabba at the hands of the mob ( In > >> the > >> >>! ; Tehelka Website, two people on the ground, naked- cm) > >> >> > >> >> As more people gathered, the father and son were stripped in front of > >> the > >> >> villagers, who remained spectators. The tormentors then called a > >> >> photographer to record the show > >> >> When 70-year-old Hajabba bought a calf on March 13, little did he know > >> he > >> >> would have to pay a big cost for it. That he would be beaten up and > >> paraded > >> >> naked. That his 29-year-old son, Hassanabba, would suffer the same > >> fate. > >> Or > >> >> that his 68-year-old friend Kanthapujari and his son Satish would be > >> jailed > >> >> for a crime they had nothing to do with. The four, belonging to > >> Moodubettu > >> >&! gt; village in Udupi district, are the latest victims of the communal > >> tension > >> >> that is eating into this picturesque region of Karnataka. > >> >> > >> >> On the morning of March 13, Hajabba visited Kanthapujari at his home; > >> the > >> >> two regularly ! dealt in livestock. On his way back, he met another > >> villager, > >> >> Bhogushetty, who negotiated the sale of a calf. Paying him an advance > >> of > >> Rs > >> >> 50, Hajabba agreed to take the calf in the evening. At 7pm, when > >> Hajabba > >> was > >> >> on his way in his Maruti van to collect the calf, Bhogushetty stopped > >> him > >> >> near Kanthapujari's home and handed over the cattle. Moments later, a > >> crowd > >> >> of around 10 people surrounded the vehicle and dragged Hajabba out. > >> "They > >> >> just started beating me," recalls Hajabba, sitting on a bed at the > >> hospital > >> >> where he spent two weeks after the attack. The assaulters were members > >> of > >> >> the Hindu Yuva Sena (hys), a rightw! ing organisation with presence in > >> the > >> >> region. Meanwhile, Hassanabba, worried why his father had not returned, > >> set > >> >> out looking for him. "When I reached the spot, there were about 30 men > >> and > >> >> they began to thrash me as well," he says, flanked! by his father at > >> the > >> >> hospital. > >> >> > >> >> They were then bundled into autos and driven to the helipad at Adi > >> Udupi, > >> >> about 2 km away. As more people gathered, the father and son were > >> stripped > >> >> and paraded in front of the villagers, who remained mute spectators. > >> "Nobody > >> > > came to help us. Everyone just stood and watched," recounts a > >> traumatised > >> >> Hajabba. > >> >> > >> >> The hys then called in a photographer. "They made us pose, saying > >> nobody > >> >> should ever buy calves after this," says Hassanabba, who lost > >> consciousness > >> >> soon after. By then, police reached the helipad from Malpe, a > >> neighbouring > >> >> town. T! hey retrieved Hajabba's clothes and took him to the police > >> station. > >> >> Hassanabba, however, was missing. "I kept telling them to look for him > >> but > >> >> they ignored me," says Hajabba. He was questioned till midnight. But > >> there > >> >> was still no sign of Hassanabba. "I don't know where I was all night > >> but > >> >> when I got up at six in the morning, I was lying near the helipad, > >> dressed," > >> >> says the father, recalling the events of that harrowing night. > >> >> > >> >> The next morning, when Hajabba registered a complaint, Kanthapujari and > >> >> Satish were taken to the police station. "They kept asking us where we > >> were > >> >> the last night and we told them we were at home," says Kanthapujari. A > >> heart>> patient, he was admitted to a government hospital in Udupi on > >> March > >> 16 under > >> >> police surveillance and was discharged only last week. > >> >> > >> >> "Unfortunately, we got the news about the attack! late and by the time > >> my > >> >> men reached the spot of attack, the son was missing. We suspect that > >> >> Kanthapujari was the middlem! an and Satish has close links with the > >> Bajrang > >> >> Dal," says S. Murugan, the Udupi superintendent of police. > >> >> > >> >> By late evening on March 14, the two were charged with being abettors > >> of > >> > > the crime and jailed. Suresh, Kanthapujari's second son, says his > > > >father may > >> >> have been implicated because he is known to do business with Hajabba. > >> But > >> >> Satish, he claims, has nothing to do with the hys. Bhogushetty's name > >> has > >> >> not been mentioned in the complaints filed with the police. Satish, who > > > was > >> >> in hiding for some days, was arrested and released last week along with > >> his > >> >> father. > >> >> > >> >> The prime accused, Yeshpal Suvarna and Prakash Bhandari, both leaders > >> of > >> >> the hys, have been missing since March 14. Several members of ! the hys > >> have > >> >> also gone underground and attempts to contact Vasudev Bhat, a prominent > >> >> leader of the outfit in the regio! n, were fruitless. > >> >> > >> >> Murugan admits tension has been on the rise and it is not the first > >> time > >> >> trade of cattle has sparked off violence. Other incidents occurred in > >> >> Mangalore, Karkala and Manipal, a region that has had a dominant > >> presence > >> of > >> >> Muslims and Christians. > >> >> > >> >> Weeks before the Adi Udupi incident, Vanitha, a factory worker in her > >> early > >> >> 20s, went missing under mysterious circumstances in Hejamadi village. > >> She > >> >> had asked her neighbour, Ismail, to help her find a better job. > >> Activists > >> of > >> >> the hys attacked both for speaking to each other. When they filed a > >> >> complaint, Vanitha was threatened by the hys, and was asked to withdraw > >> her > >> >> complaint. When she refused, Vanitha was assaulted. No one knows about > >> her > >> >> whereabouts. Till now no investigation has taken place while Ismail is > >> in > >> >> hiding and Vanitha's brother, an eye-witness,! is also missing. > >> >> > >> >> Locals cite several such incidents. On March 19, a ceremony was held > >> at a > >> >> dargah in Udupi. It was attended by thousands. A local Kannada daily > >> printed > >> >> a photograph of two people carrying a green flag with the caption, "The > >> >> Pakistani flag in Udupi." Protests began soon, and though the paper was > >> >> forced by the police to print an erratum the next day, the town > >> remained > >> >> tense. Days later, on March 26, bjp mla Raghupathy Bhat led a > >> procession > >> in > >> >> Udupi. Witnesses say Bhat withdrew from the scene as members of the > >> Sangh > >> >> Parivar began to stone Muslim-owned shops en route. Bhat was not > >> available > >> >> for comments. > >> >> > >> >> Locals live in constant fear and refuse to even speak about the hys or > >> the > >> >> Bajrang Dal. The region, where different communities have co-existed > >> >> peacefully for decades, has become fraught with communal ten! sion. "We > >> always > >> >> lived together. Why these people cause trouble, I never understand," > >> says > >> >> Kanthapujari. > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> May 07 , 2005 > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> Assam mailing list > >> >> [email protected] > >> > > http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam > >> >> > >> >> Mailing list FAQ: > >> >> http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html > >> >> To unsubscribe or change options: > >> >> http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > >> Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Assam mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam > >> > >> Mailing list FAQ: > >> http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html > >> To unsubscribe or change options: > >> http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Assam mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam > >> > >> Mailing list FAQ: > >> http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html > >> To unsubscribe or change options: > >> http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Assam mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam > >> > >> Mailing list FAQ: > >> http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html > >> To unsubscribe or change options: > >> http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam > >> > >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ Assam mailing list [email protected] http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
