Re: [Assam] I/J from Tehelka -religion /spirituality

[umesh sharma]

C-da,

 

Except for ur remarks on my comments I think you have finally got some good points on religion. But u are confusing the issue of labelling me as a person from Hindu "religion" -- I follow Hindu faith -- maybe not Hindu religion.

 

Religion relates to entire society - faith/spirituality relates to me only or some fellow worshippers.

 

Catholic Church and Vishwa Hindu Parishad or Muslim Board are religious organizations .

 

 But I won't call them spiritual -- though even Vatican may claim itself to be so. Religious organizations - will have problems of class conflicts -since they are per force rooted in the society and its structures.

 

Umesh

PS: I am glad you finally made a distiction that even fro one religion, do not blame their enmtire community for the ills of some - this is a new version (to me atleast ) of ur veiwpoints.

 

umesh sharma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

C-da,

 

I think you need a good sleep, I never made any of the suggestions you are suggesting I authored. I stated some facts -common to ALL faiths and all sorts of class conflicts.

 

You'd better re-read what we both wrote.

 

Umesh

Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Ram:


I understand the urge to try and use a set of pre-owned arguments off
the shelf to reply to some unpleasant news in a hurry. If it fits,
fine. No harm done.
But if it does not fit, it could look rather awkward, as it does in
this instance :-).

>***If only they could be---

Those were from a response to certain recommendations made in Assam Net.

In this case, I don't know that anybody has made any recommendation,
or even commented on them. I just posted it for Netters' information.
No doubt judgements were made by the desis themselves,Tehelka. If the
editorial part hurt, a rebuttal is always possible.

Can ex-pat desis make some recommendations to the Kannadi culprits?
I am sure some could be found to lecture them.

Would it mean anything?
Take a wild guess :-).

But on the other hand:
Is it a blot on these people's ethics and their civilization?
Yes.
Does it reflect on their faith?
Yes.
Does it reflect on all who identify themselves as Hindus?
No, never!
Does it indicate an absence of the rule of law?
Yes.
Can and do these happen in other parts of India ?
Yes. But not everywhere.
Should I or anyone else feel guilty about it?
That would depend on if I or others identify with anything that
was involved.
I don't. I have no feeling of guilt or responsibility.
What about others?
If the shoes fit, they would have to wear them.

Do I have responsibility to make any recommendation?
Not on your life.
Are there others who have such a responsibility?
That is for them to decide. If they have a tradition to uphold,
they may. If there is pattern to their reactions, and they wish
to maintain it, it is their choice.

What does Umesh's comments mean?
Since Catholics in Central America do similar thin! gs,as he claims,
their religion is no better than the Kannadi culprits' version
of Hinduism.
Where did the need for this comparison come from?
I am not sure, but it must be from a deep seated inferiority complex
about his own faith, Hinduism, that he harbors. And since he identifies
with all those who sport Hinduism, his feeling of guilt is
troubling him. Or maybe he shares the political beliefs of the
Bajrang Dal terrorists.

Should he though? I mean do ALL those who sport a Hindu identity have
to share in the guilt of transgressions by some, like these Kannadi
culprits?

That depends on whether he believes in individuality and
individual responsibility. I have seen many fine and educated people
people from India, who are so deeply confused, that they are
ready and willing to demonize everyone who share an identity--national
, cultural or religious, for the sins of a few and hold all
responsible.

For example, those ! who massacred Sikhs pursuant to Indira Gandhi's
assassination by her Sikh security guards. Or Gujaratis who massacred
Muslims after Godhra. Or those who hold ALL Muslims responsible for
the crimes of the violent fundamentalist segments. Or those who hold
the present day Muslims of India responsible for the atrocities of
Mughal invaders.

So on and so forth.


What do you think Ram? Am I off target :-)?

c-da











At 9:43 AM -0500 5/1/05, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
>C'da,
>
>>For What? Hajabba (left) and Hassanabba at the hands of the mob ( In
>the >Tehelka Website, two people on the ground, naked- cm)
>
>This should never have happened. This is a shame.
>
>Don't you think these 'uneducated, barbaric villagers' ought to be
>re-educated by NRIs/NRAs?
>
>**
>***If only they could be like the ones who fled from Assam(India), who have to
>fight for their existence in far-off foreign lands like the USA, UK
>etc. every day, where they cannot get any protection from the police,
>where they have no chance of getting justice from the courts in their
>lifetimes, where corruption/crime/barbaric rituals run rampant in all
>spheres of life,
>where they have no protection against local 'dadas' who could
>intimidate them anytime, any place--one can go on and on!
>
>I think you are so right. Go ahead and give these adha-mora (
>half-dead), coward Oxomiyas(Kanadiga village bumkins) the verbal uttom
>modhyom like they deserve. After all we have earned it, with our own
>successes against the unimaginable odds, haven't we? *******
>
>:-) :-) Just substituted a few key words
>
>--Ram
>
>
>
>On 5/1/05, Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
>>
>> Barbaric India
>>
>>! ; THEIR SHAME, OUR SHAME
>>
>> Rightwing activists strip two people for buying cattle
>>
>> By Chinmayee Manjunath
>> Udupi, Karnataka
>> For What? Hajabba (left) and Hassanabba at the hands of the mob ( In the
>> Tehelka Website, two people on the ground, naked- cm)
>>
>> As more people gathered, the father and son were stripped in front of the
>> villagers, who remained spectators. The tormentors then called a
>> photographer to record the show
>> When 70-year-old Hajabba bought a calf on March 13, little did he know he
>> would have to pay a big cost for it. That he would be beaten up and paraded
>> naked. That his 29-year-old son, Hassanabba, would suffer the same fate. Or
>> that his 68-year-old friend Kanthapujari and his son Satish would be jailed
>> for a crime they had nothing to do with. The four, belonging to Moodubettu
>&! gt; village in Udupi district, are the latest victims of the communal tension
>> that is eating into this picturesque region of Karnataka.
>>
>> On the morning of March 13, Hajabba visited Kanthapujari at his home; the
>> two regularly dealt in livestock. On his way back, he met another villager,
>> Bhogushetty, who negotiated the sale of a calf. Paying him an advance of Rs
>> 50, Hajabba agreed to take the calf in the evening. At 7pm, when Hajabba was
>> on his way in his Maruti van to collect the calf, Bhogushetty stopped him
>> near Kanthapujari's home and handed over the cattle. Moments later, a crowd
>> of around 10 people surrounded the vehicle and dragged Hajabba out. "They
>> just started beating me," recalls Hajabba, sitting on a bed at the hospital
>> where he spent two weeks after the attack. The assaulters were members of
>> the Hindu Yuva Sena (hys), a rightw! ing organisation with presence in the
>> region. Meanwhile, Hassanabba, worried why his father had not returned, set
>> out looking for him. "When I reached the spot, there were about 30 men and
>> they began to thrash me as well," he says, flanked by his father at the
>> hospital.
>>
>> They were then bundled into autos and driven to the helipad at Adi Udupi,
>> about 2 km away. As more people gathered, the father and son were stripped
>> and paraded in front of the villagers, who remained mute spectators. "Nobody
> > came to help us. Everyone just stood and watched," recounts a traumatised
>> Hajabba.
>>
>> The hys then called in a photographer. "They made us pose, saying nobody
>> should ever buy calves after this," says Hassanabba, who lost consciousness
>> soon after. By then, police reached the helipad from Malpe, a neighbouring
>> town. T! hey retrieved Hajabba's clothes and took him to the police station.
>> Hassanabba, however, was missing. "I kept telling them to look for him but
>> they ignored me," says Hajabba. He was questioned till midnight. But there
>> was still no sign of Hassanabba. "I don't know where I was all night but
>> when I got up at six in the morning, I was lying near the helipad, dressed,"
>> says the father, recalling the events of that harrowing night.
>>
>> The next morning, when Hajabba registered a complaint, Kanthapujari and
>> Satish were taken to the police station. "They kept asking us where we were
>> the last night and we told them we were at home," says Kanthapujari. A heart
>> patient, he was admitted to a government hospital in Udupi on March 16 under
>> police surveillance and was discharged only last week.
>>
>> "Unfortunately, we got the news about the attack! late and by the time my
>> men reached the spot of attack, the son was missing. We suspect that
>> Kanthapujari was the middleman and Satish has close links with the Bajrang
>> Dal," says S. Murugan, the Udupi superintendent of police.
>>
>> By late evening on March 14, the two were charged with being abettors of
> > the crime and jailed. Suresh, Kanthapujari's second son, says his
>father may
>> have been implicated because he is known to do business with Hajabba. But
>> Satish, he claims, has nothing to do with the hys. Bhogushetty's name has
>> not been mentioned in the complaints filed with the police. Satish, who was
>> in hiding for some days, was arrested and released last week along with his
>> father.
>>
>> The prime accused, Yeshpal Suvarna and Prakash Bhandari, both leaders of
>> the hys, have been missing since March 14. Several members of ! the hys have
>> also gone underground and attempts to contact Vasudev Bhat, a prominent
>> leader of the outfit in the region, were fruitless.
>>
>> Murugan admits tension has been on the rise and it is not the first time
>> trade of cattle has sparked off violence. Other incidents occurred in
>> Mangalore, Karkala and Manipal, a region that has had a dominant presence of
>> Muslims and Christians.
>>
>> Weeks before the Adi Udupi incident, Vanitha, a factory worker in her early
>> 20s, went missing under mysterious circumstances in Hejamadi village. She
>> had asked her neighbour, Ismail, to help her find a better job. Activists of
>> the hys attacked both for speaking to each other. When they filed a
>> complaint, Vanitha was threatened by the hys, and was asked to withdraw her
>> complaint. When she refused, Vanitha was assaulted. No one knows about her
>> whereabouts. Till now no investigation has taken place while Ismail is in
>> hiding and Vanitha's brother, an eye-witness, is also missing.
>>
>> Locals cite several such incidents. On March 19, a ceremony was held at a
>> dargah in Udupi. It was attended by thousands. A local Kannada daily printed
>> a photograph of two people carrying a green flag with the caption, "The
>> Pakistani flag in Udupi." Protests began soon, and though the paper was
>> forced by the police to print an erratum the next day, the town remained
>> tense. Days later, on March 26, bjp mla Raghupathy Bhat led a procession in
>> Udupi. Witnesses say Bhat withdrew from the scene as members of the Sangh
>> Parivar began to stone Muslim-owned shops en route. Bhat was not available
>> for comments.
>>
>> Locals live in constant fear and refuse to even speak about the hys or the
>> Bajrang Dal. The region, where different communities have co-existed
>> peacefully for decades, has become fraught with communal tension. "We always
>> lived together. Why these people cause trouble, I never understand," says
>> Kanthapujari.
>>
>>
>> May 07 , 2005
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