> >If cows are so dear to Hindus, why do Hindus sell cows and that too toMuslims >knowing well that they may be slaughtered?
Maybe he was an NRA/NRI who is above such mundane things of figuring out what the fate of the cow would be :-)
*** Ram, Ram, Ram! You must have really been stung by my piece that day, for you to keep trying to pin the arguments back on me. Not that it is an impossibility, that someone can turn the tables on me using my own arguments or comments, but you are doing it very ineffectively. I am very careful about firing my weapons. I compute their possible return path trajectories before I release them.
You know, 'sung-sai-xwpa-diya' is a fine khrakhowa art. You can't just throw it around hoping something, somehow, sometime, will stick. You were obviously not told that each misdirected attempt has a penalty. Not only do you not score, you also lose points. So it is not a good idea to take the 'bere-saale-kwbwa' approach.
c-da :-) :-) :-) :-)
--Ram
On 5/2/05, Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:>From inside the troublemaker's box, I think the idea is a good one.
In fact the point was touched upon in the Tehelka piece, though not in terms of raising Muslim cattle for meat. The seller is a Hindu, and he was imprisoned by the police, but not the Bajrang Dal terrorists who attacked the buyers.
>If cows are so dear to Hindus, why do Hindus sell cows and that too to Muslims >knowing well that they may be slaughtered?
*** Good question. It also points to the hypocrisy embedded in the issue.
At 12:12 PM -0700 5/2/05, Dilip/Dil Deka wrote: If I recall correctly, the cow or cows in this case were sold by a Hindu seller to a Muslim buyer. If cows are so dear to Hindus, why do Hindus sell cows and that too to Muslims knowing well that they may be slaughtered? If the Hindus would not sell cows, the beef eaters would have to raise their own cattle for slaughtering and hopefully the inter-community trade and ensuing complications would stop. May be that will satisfy both parties till they find something else to fight over.
I realize this is not a solution to the millenia old feud between Hindus and Muslims in India. I am just thinking outside the box on the cow protection/slaughter issue. Any other "Gosot Goru utha" thoughts? Dilip
Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi Umesh:
My apologies for not reading your note carefully enough.
I let myself to be carried away by your opening the Catholic and Hindu comparisons, even though it was in a different context and had nothing to do with the subject matter under discussion.
Bajrang Dal's terrorism perpetrated on the father and son duo of Muslim cattle traders had nothing to do with attempts to perpetuate feudal controls by landowners using the politics of religion either in India or in Central America.
>I stated some facts -common to ALL faiths
*** It has nothing to do with faith but everything to do with using religion to advance or perpetuate political power, like Rajen explained.
c-da
At 8:06 PM +0100 5/1/05, umesh sharma wrote: C-da,
I think you need a good sleep, I never made any of the suggestions you are suggesting I authored. I stated some facts -common to ALL faiths and all sorts of class conflicts.
You'd better re-read what we both wrote.
Umesh
Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Ram:
I understand the urge to try and use a set of pre-owned arguments off the shelf to reply to some unpleasant news in a hurry. If it fits, fine. No harm done. But if it does not fit, it could look rather awkward, as it does in this instance :-).
>***If only they could be---
Those were from a response to certain recommendations made in Assam Net.> editorial part hurt, a rebuttal is always possible.In this case, I don't know that anybody has made any recommendation, or even commented on them. I just posted it for Netters' information. No doubt judgements were made by the desis themselves,Tehelka. If the> >
Can ex-pat desis make some recommendations to the Kannadi culprits? I am sure some could be found to lecture them.
Would it mean anything? Take a wild guess :-).
But on the other hand:
Is it a blot on these people's ethics and their civilization? Yes. Does it reflect o! n their faith? Yes. Does it reflect on all who identify themselves as Hindus? No, never! Does it indicate an absence of the rule of law? Yes. Can and do these happen in other parts of India ? Yes. But not everywhere. Should I or anyone else feel guilty about it? That would depend on if I or others identify with anything that was involved. I don't. I have no feeling of guilt or responsibility. What about others? If the shoes fit, they would have to wear them.
Do I have responsibility to make any recommendation? Not on your life. Are there others who have such a responsibility? That is for them to decide. If they have a tradition to uphold, they may. If there is pattern to their reactions, and they wish to maintain it, it is their choice.
What does Umesh's comments mean? Since Catholics in Central America do similar thin! gs,as he claims, their religion is no better than the Kannadi culprits' version of Hinduism. Where did the need for this comparison come from? I am not sure, but it must be from a deep seated inferiority complex about his own faith, Hinduism, that he harbors. And since he identifies with all those who sport Hinduism, his feeling of guilt is troubling him. Or maybe he shares the political beliefs of the Bajrang Dal terrorists.
Should he though? I mean do ALL those who sport a Hindu identity have to share in the guilt of transgressions by some, like these Kannadi culprits?
That depends on whether he believes in individuality and individual responsibility. I have seen many fine and educated people people from India, who are so deeply confused, that they are ready and willing to demonize everyone who share an identity--national , cultural or religious, for the sins of a few and hold all responsible.
For example, those ! who massacred Sikhs pursuant to Indira Gandhi's assassination by her Sikh secu! rity guards. Or Gujaratis who massacred Muslims after Godhra. Or those who hold ALL Muslims responsible for the crimes of the violent fundamentalist segments. Or those who hold
the present day Muslims of India responsible for the atrocities of Mughal invaders.
So on and so forth.
What do you think Ram? Am I off target :-)?
c-da
At 9:43 AM -0500 5/1/05, Ram Sarangapani wrote: >C'da, > >>For What? Hajabba (left) and Hassanabba at the hands of the mob ( In >the >Tehelka Website, two people on the ground, naked- cm) > >This should never have happened. This is a shame. > >Don't you think these 'uneducated, barbaric villagers' ought to be >re-educated by NRIs/NRAs? > >** >***If only they could be like the ones who fled from Assam(India), who have to >fight for their existence in far-off foreign lands like the USA, UK >etc. every day, where they cannot get any protection from the police, >where they have no chance of getting justice from the courts in their >lifetimes, ! where corruption/crime/barbaric rituals run rampant in all >spheres of life, >where they have no protection against local 'dadas' who could >intimidate them anytime, any place--one can go on and on! > >I think you are so right. Go ahead and give these adha-mora ( >half-dead), coward Oxomiyas(Kanadiga village bumkins) the verbal uttom >modhyom like they deserve. After all we have earned it, with our own >successes against the unimaginable odds, haven't we? ******* > >:-) :-) Just substituted a few key words > >--Ram> >> Udupi, Karnataka> > >On 5/1/05, Chan Mahanta wrote: >> >> Barbaric India >> >>! ; THEIR SHAME, OUR SHAME >> >> Rightwing activists strip two people for buying cattle >> >> By Chinmayee Manjunath> >father may>> For What? Hajabba (left) and Hassanabba at the hands of the mob ( In the >>! ; Tehelka Website, two people on the ground, naked- cm) >> >> As more people gathered, the father and son were stripped in front of the >> villagers, who remained spectators. The tormentors then called a >> photographer to record the show >> When 70-year-old Hajabba bought a calf on March 13, little did he know he >> would have to pay a big cost for it. That he would be beaten up and paraded >> naked. That his 29-year-old son, Hassanabba, would suffer the same fate. Or >> that his 68-year-old friend Kanthapujari and his son Satish would be jailed >> for a crime they had nothing to do with. The four, belonging to Moodubettu >&! gt; village in Udupi district, are the latest victims of the communal tension >> that is eating into this picturesque region of Karnataka. >> >> On the morning of March 13, Hajabba visited Kanthapujari at his home; the >> two regularly ! dealt in livestock. On his way back, he met another villager, >> Bhogushetty, who negotiated the sale of a calf. Paying him an advance of Rs >> 50, Hajabba agreed to take the calf in the evening. At 7pm, when Hajabba was >> on his way in his Maruti van to collect the calf, Bhogushetty stopped him >> near Kanthapujari's home and handed over the cattle. Moments later, a crowd >> of around 10 people surrounded the vehicle and dragged Hajabba out. "They >> just started beating me," recalls Hajabba, sitting on a bed at the hospital >> where he spent two weeks after the attack. The assaulters were members of >> the Hindu Yuva Sena (hys), a rightw! ing organisation with presence in the >> region. Meanwhile, Hassanabba, worried why his father had not returned, set >> out looking for him. "When I reached the spot, there were about 30 men and >> they began to thrash me as well," he says, flanked! by his father at the >> hospital. >> >> They were then bundled into autos and driven to the helipad at Adi Udupi, >> about 2 km away. As more people gathered, the father and son were stripped >> and paraded in front of the villagers, who remained mute spectators. "Nobody > > came to help us. Everyone just stood and watched," recounts a traumatised >> Hajabba. >> >> The hys then called in a photographer. "They made us pose, saying nobody >> should ever buy calves after this," says Hassanabba, who lost consciousness >> soon after. By then, police reached the helipad from Malpe, a neighbouring >> town. T! hey retrieved Hajabba's clothes and took him to the police station. >> Hassanabba, however, was missing. "I kept telling them to look for him but >> they ignored me," says Hajabba. He was questioned till midnight. But there >> was still no sign of Hassanabba. "I don't know where I was all night but >> when I got up at six in the morning, I was lying near the helipad, dressed," >> says the father, recalling the events of that harrowing night. >> >> The next morning, when Hajabba registered a complaint, Kanthapujari and >> Satish were taken to the police station. "They kept asking us where we were >> the last night and we told them we were at home," says Kanthapujari. A heart>> patient, he was admitted to a government hospital in Udupi on March 16 under >> police surveillance and was discharged only last week. >> >> "Unfortunately, we got the news about the attack! late and by the time my >> men reached the spot of attack, the son was missing. We suspect that >> Kanthapujari was the middlem! an and Satish has close links with the Bajrang >> Dal," says S. Murugan, the Udupi superintendent of police. >> >> By late evening on March 14, the two were charged with being abettors of > > the crime and jailed. Suresh, Kanthapujari's second son, says his> was>> have been implicated because he is known to do business with Hajabba. But >> Satish, he claims, has nothing to do with the hys. Bhogushetty's name has >> not been mentioned in the complaints filed with the police. Satish, who>> in hiding for some days, was arrested and released last week along with his >> father. >> >> The prime accused, Yeshpal Suvarna and Prakash Bhandari, both leaders of >> the hys, have been missing since March 14. Several members of ! the hys have >> also gone underground and attempts to contact Vasudev Bhat, a prominent >> leader of the outfit in the regio! n, were fruitless. >> >> Murugan admits tension has been on the rise and it is not the first time >> trade of cattle has sparked off violence. Other incidents occurred in >> Mangalore, Karkala and Manipal, a region that has had a dominant presence of >> Muslims and Christians. >> >> Weeks before the Adi Udupi incident, Vanitha, a factory worker in her early >> 20s, went missing under mysterious circumstances in Hejamadi village. She >> had asked her neighbour, Ismail, to help her find a better job. Activists of >> the hys attacked both for speaking to each other. When they filed a >> complaint, Vanitha was threatened by the hys, and was asked to withdraw her >> complaint. When she refused, Vanitha was assaulted. No one knows about her >> whereabouts. Till now no investigation has taken place while Ismail is in >> hiding and Vanitha's brother, an eye-witness,! is also missing. >> >> Locals cite several such incidents. On March 19, a ceremony was held at a >> dargah in Udupi. It was attended by thousands. A local Kannada daily printed >> a photograph of two people carrying a green flag with the caption, "The >> Pakistani flag in Udupi." Protests began soon, and though the paper was >> forced by the police to print an erratum the next day, the town remained >> tense. Days later, on March 26, bjp mla Raghupathy Bhat led a procession in >> Udupi. Witnesses say Bhat withdrew from the scene as members of the Sangh >> Parivar began to stone Muslim-owned shops en route. Bhat was not available >> for comments. >> >> Locals live in constant fear and refuse to even speak about the hys or the >> Bajrang Dal. The region, where different communities have co-existed >> peacefully for decades, has become fraught with communal ten! sion. "We always >> lived together. Why these people cause trouble, I never understand," says >> Kanthapujari. >> >> >> May 07 , 2005 >> _______________________________________________ >> Assam mailing list >> [email protected] > > http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam >> >> Mailing list FAQ: >> http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html >> To unsubscribe or change options: >> http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam >> >> >>
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