> >If cows are so dear to Hindus, why do Hindus sell cows and that too to > Muslims >knowing well that they may be slaughtered?
Maybe he was an NRA/NRI who is above such mundane things of figuring out what the fate of the cow would be :-) --Ram On 5/2/05, Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From inside the troublemaker's box, I think the idea is a good one. > > In fact the point was touched upon in the Tehelka piece, though not in terms > of raising Muslim cattle for meat. The seller is a Hindu, and he was > imprisoned by the police, but not the Bajrang Dal terrorists who attacked > the buyers. > > >If cows are so dear to Hindus, why do Hindus sell cows and that too to > Muslims >knowing well that they may be slaughtered? > > *** Good question. It also points to the hypocrisy embedded in the issue. > > > > > At 12:12 PM -0700 5/2/05, Dilip/Dil Deka wrote: > If I recall correctly, the cow or cows in this case were sold by a Hindu > seller to a Muslim buyer. If cows are so dear to Hindus, why do Hindus sell > cows and that too to Muslims knowing well that they may be slaughtered? > If the Hindus would not sell cows, the beef eaters would have to raise their > own cattle for slaughtering and hopefully the inter-community trade and > ensuing complications would stop. May be that will satisfy both parties till > they find something else to fight over. > > I realize this is not a solution to the millenia old feud between Hindus and > Muslims in India. I am just thinking outside the box on the cow > protection/slaughter issue. Any other "Gosot Goru utha" thoughts? > Dilip > > Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Umesh: > > > My apologies for not reading your note carefully enough. > > I let myself to be carried away by your opening the Catholic and Hindu > comparisons, even though it was in a different context and had nothing to do > with the subject matter under discussion. > > Bajrang Dal's terrorism perpetrated on the father and son duo of Muslim > cattle traders had nothing to do with attempts to perpetuate feudal controls > by landowners using the politics of religion either in India or in Central > America. > > >I stated some facts -common to ALL faiths > > *** It has nothing to do with faith but everything to do with using religion > to advance or perpetuate political power, like Rajen explained. > > c-da > > > > > > > At 8:06 PM +0100 5/1/05, umesh sharma wrote: > C-da, > > > I think you need a good sleep, I never made any of the suggestions you are > suggesting I authored. I stated some facts -common to ALL faiths and all > sorts of class conflicts. > > You'd better re-read what we both wrote. > > > Umesh > > Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Ram: > > > I understand the urge to try and use a set of pre-owned arguments off > the shelf to reply to some unpleasant news in a hurry. If it fits, > fine. No harm done. > But if it does not fit, it could look rather awkward, as it does in > this instance :-). > > >***If only they could be--- > > Those were from a response to certain recommendations made in Assam Net. > > In this case, I don't know that anybody has made any recommendation, > or even commented on them. I just posted it for Netters' information. > No doubt judgements were made by the desis themselves,Tehelka. If the > editorial part hurt, a rebuttal is always possible. > > Can ex-pat desis make some recommendations to the Kannadi culprits? > I am sure some could be found to lecture them. > > Would it mean anything? > Take a wild guess :-). > > But on the other hand: > > Is it a blot on these people's ethics and their civilization? > Yes. > Does it reflect o! n their faith? > Yes. > Does it reflect on all who identify themselves as Hindus? > No, never! > Does it indicate an absence of the rule of law? > Yes. > Can and do these happen in other parts of India ? > Yes. But not everywhere. > Should I or anyone else feel guilty about it? > That would depend on if I or others identify with anything that > was involved. > I don't. I have no feeling of guilt or responsibility. > What about others? > If the shoes fit, they would have to wear them. > > Do I have responsibility to make any recommendation? > Not on your life. > Are there others who have such a responsibility? > That is for them to decide. If they have a tradition to uphold, > they may. If there is pattern to their reactions, and they wish > to maintain it, it is their choice. > > What does Umesh's comments mean? > Since Catholics in Central America do similar thin! gs,as he claims, > their religion is no better than the Kannadi culprits' version > of Hinduism. > Where did the need for this comparison come from? > I am not sure, but it must be from a deep seated inferiority complex > about his own faith, Hinduism, that he harbors. And since he identifies > with all those who sport Hinduism, his feeling of guilt is > troubling him. Or maybe he shares the political beliefs of the > Bajrang Dal terrorists. > > Should he though? I mean do ALL those who sport a Hindu identity have > to share in the guilt of transgressions by some, like these Kannadi > culprits? > > That depends on whether he believes in individuality and > individual responsibility. I have seen many fine and educated people > people from India, who are so deeply confused, that they are > ready and willing to demonize everyone who share an identity--national > , cultural or religious, for the sins of a few and hold all > responsible. > > For example, those ! who massacred Sikhs pursuant to Indira Gandhi's > assassination by her Sikh secu! rity guards. Or Gujaratis who massacred > Muslims after Godhra. Or those who hold ALL Muslims responsible for > the crimes of the violent fundamentalist segments. Or those who hold > > the present day Muslims of India responsible for the atrocities of > Mughal invaders. > > So on and so forth. > > > What do you think Ram? Am I off target :-)? > > c-da > > > > > > > > > > > > At 9:43 AM -0500 5/1/05, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > >C'da, > > > >>For What? Hajabba (left) and Hassanabba at the hands of the mob ( In > >the >Tehelka Website, two people on the ground, naked- cm) > > > >This should never have happened. This is a shame. > > > >Don't you think these 'uneducated, barbaric villagers' ought to be > >re-educated by NRIs/NRAs? > > > >** > >***If only they could be like the ones who fled from Assam(India), who have > to > >fight for their existence in far-off foreign lands like the USA, UK > >etc. every day, where they cannot get any protection from the police, > >where they have no chance of getting justice from the courts in their > >lifetimes, ! where corruption/crime/barbaric rituals run rampant in all > >spheres of life, > >where they have no protection against local 'dadas' who could > >intimidate them anytime, any place--one can go on and on! > > > >I think you are so right. Go ahead and give these adha-mora ( > >half-dead), coward Oxomiyas(Kanadiga village bumkins) the verbal uttom > >modhyom like they deserve. After all we have earned it, with our own > >successes against the unimaginable odds, haven't we? ******* > > > >:-) :-) Just substituted a few key words > > > >--Ram > > > > > > > >On 5/1/05, Chan Mahanta wrote: > >> > >> Barbaric India > >> > >>! ; THEIR SHAME, OUR SHAME > >> > >> Rightwing activists strip two people for buying cattle > >> > >> By Chinmayee Manjunath > >> Udupi, Karnataka > >> For What? Hajabba (left) and Hassanabba at the hands of the mob ( In the > >>! ; Tehelka Website, two people on the ground, naked- cm) > >> > >> As more people gathered, the father and son were stripped in front of the > >> villagers, who remained spectators. The tormentors then called a > >> photographer to record the show > >> When 70-year-old Hajabba bought a calf on March 13, little did he know he > >> would have to pay a big cost for it. That he would be beaten up and > paraded > >> naked. That his 29-year-old son, Hassanabba, would suffer the same fate. > Or > >> that his 68-year-old friend Kanthapujari and his son Satish would be > jailed > >> for a crime they had nothing to do with. The four, belonging to > Moodubettu > >&! gt; village in Udupi district, are the latest victims of the communal > tension > >> that is eating into this picturesque region of Karnataka. > >> > >> On the morning of March 13, Hajabba visited Kanthapujari at his home; the > >> two regularly ! dealt in livestock. On his way back, he met another > villager, > >> Bhogushetty, who negotiated the sale of a calf. Paying him an advance of > Rs > >> 50, Hajabba agreed to take the calf in the evening. At 7pm, when Hajabba > was > >> on his way in his Maruti van to collect the calf, Bhogushetty stopped him > >> near Kanthapujari's home and handed over the cattle. Moments later, a > crowd > >> of around 10 people surrounded the vehicle and dragged Hajabba out. "They > >> just started beating me," recalls Hajabba, sitting on a bed at the > hospital > >> where he spent two weeks after the attack. The assaulters were members of > >> the Hindu Yuva Sena (hys), a rightw! ing organisation with presence in > the > >> region. Meanwhile, Hassanabba, worried why his father had not returned, > set > >> out looking for him. "When I reached the spot, there were about 30 men > and > >> they began to thrash me as well," he says, flanked! by his father at the > >> hospital. > >> > >> They were then bundled into autos and driven to the helipad at Adi Udupi, > >> about 2 km away. As more people gathered, the father and son were > stripped > >> and paraded in front of the villagers, who remained mute spectators. > "Nobody > > > came to help us. Everyone just stood and watched," recounts a > traumatised > >> Hajabba. > >> > >> The hys then called in a photographer. "They made us pose, saying nobody > >> should ever buy calves after this," says Hassanabba, who lost > consciousness > >> soon after. By then, police reached the helipad from Malpe, a > neighbouring > >> town. T! hey retrieved Hajabba's clothes and took him to the police > station. > >> Hassanabba, however, was missing. "I kept telling them to look for him > but > >> they ignored me," says Hajabba. He was questioned till midnight. But > there > >> was still no sign of Hassanabba. "I don't know where I was all night but > >> when I got up at six in the morning, I was lying near the helipad, > dressed," > >> says the father, recalling the events of that harrowing night. > >> > >> The next morning, when Hajabba registered a complaint, Kanthapujari and > >> Satish were taken to the police station. "They kept asking us where we > were > >> the last night and we told them we were at home," says Kanthapujari. A > heart>> patient, he was admitted to a government hospital in Udupi on March > 16 under > >> police surveillance and was discharged only last week. > >> > >> "Unfortunately, we got the news about the attack! late and by the time my > >> men reached the spot of attack, the son was missing. We suspect that > >> Kanthapujari was the middlem! an and Satish has close links with the > Bajrang > >> Dal," says S. Murugan, the Udupi superintendent of police. > >> > >> By late evening on March 14, the two were charged with being abettors of > > > the crime and jailed. Suresh, Kanthapujari's second son, says his > >father may > >> have been implicated because he is known to do business with Hajabba. But > >> Satish, he claims, has nothing to do with the hys. Bhogushetty's name has > >> not been mentioned in the complaints filed with the police. Satish, who > was > >> in hiding for some days, was arrested and released last week along with > his > >> father. > >> > >> The prime accused, Yeshpal Suvarna and Prakash Bhandari, both leaders of > >> the hys, have been missing since March 14. Several members of ! the hys > have > >> also gone underground and attempts to contact Vasudev Bhat, a prominent > >> leader of the outfit in the regio! n, were fruitless. > >> > >> Murugan admits tension has been on the rise and it is not the first time > >> trade of cattle has sparked off violence. Other incidents occurred in > >> Mangalore, Karkala and Manipal, a region that has had a dominant presence > of > >> Muslims and Christians. > >> > >> Weeks before the Adi Udupi incident, Vanitha, a factory worker in her > early > >> 20s, went missing under mysterious circumstances in Hejamadi village. She > >> had asked her neighbour, Ismail, to help her find a better job. Activists > of > >> the hys attacked both for speaking to each other. When they filed a > >> complaint, Vanitha was threatened by the hys, and was asked to withdraw > her > >> complaint. When she refused, Vanitha was assaulted. No one knows about > her > >> whereabouts. Till now no investigation has taken place while Ismail is in > >> hiding and Vanitha's brother, an eye-witness,! is also missing. > >> > >> Locals cite several such incidents. On March 19, a ceremony was held at a > >> dargah in Udupi. It was attended by thousands. A local Kannada daily > printed > >> a photograph of two people carrying a green flag with the caption, "The > >> Pakistani flag in Udupi." Protests began soon, and though the paper was > >> forced by the police to print an erratum the next day, the town remained > >> tense. Days later, on March 26, bjp mla Raghupathy Bhat led a procession > in > >> Udupi. Witnesses say Bhat withdrew from the scene as members of the Sangh > >> Parivar began to stone Muslim-owned shops en route. Bhat was not > available > >> for comments. > >> > >> Locals live in constant fear and refuse to even speak about the hys or > the > >> Bajrang Dal. The region, where different communities have co-existed > >> peacefully for decades, has become fraught with communal ten! sion. "We > always > >> lived together. Why these people cause trouble, I never understand," says > >> Kanthapujari. > >> > >> > >> May 07 , 2005 > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Assam mailing list > >> [email protected] > > > http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam > >> > >> Mailing list FAQ: > >> http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html > >> To unsubscribe or change options: > >> http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam > >> > >> > >> > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Assam mailing list > [email protected] > http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam > > Mailing list FAQ: > http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html > To unsubscribe or change options: > http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam > > > _______________________________________________ > Assam mailing list > [email protected] > http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam > > Mailing list FAQ: > http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html > To unsubscribe or change options: > http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam > > > _______________________________________________ > Assam mailing list > [email protected] > http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam > > Mailing list FAQ: > http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html > To unsubscribe or change options: > http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam > > > _______________________________________________ Assam mailing list [email protected] http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
