C'da, >It was not the act of the 'preaching' or 'scolding' that I took aim at. It was for not >being able to admit to the real source of the problem, but instead picking on the >easy targets......> You all targeted the hapless people who cannot get any >protection from the police, who have no chance of getting justice from the courts in their lifetimes
Maybe you did not notice, but most of the time these easy targets that you refer to are not the poor, helpless khetiok or a LP school teacher. 'General public' really refers to student/employee groups. They have the power in numbers and many are politically active. How is that they do not see bandhs only accentuate problems with huge drain in resources. Why can't AASU for example set an example stipulating that bandhs not be called for at the drop of a hat. If they so desired, nobody in Assam could have a bandh without their say so. >It was for not being able to admit to the real source of the problem, but > instead picking on the easy targets. Lets put this prespective: The Center has problems, Assam has problems, GOA.GOI have problems. But some problems like bandhs or road repair are really brought upon by ourselves - by a public that really has either given up hope or doesn't care one way or the other. Even if one were to take your extreme position that nothing works in India, there are some things that people can do make changes in what they are dealt with on a day to day basis. Would you rather have them(the people) not do a thing? The 'public' I am referring to here are the people in the cities who have clout, the student unions. These people can make the powers that be to listen to logical, realistic demands. I read somewhere that one of the cell phone cos. was giving the people in Assam a raw deal. So, how do users react - by writing a few letters to ed and then paying the high price. They don't boycott the service or choose a competitor. So, even if you assume the Center is at fault for everything, there must be issues that the general public be willing to take care on their own and find equitable solutions. --Ram On 5/2/05, Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Ram: > > Well, just got that off my chest, feel much better now. I know, you > >wont mind at my discourse :-) > > Not at all. I am glad you get it off your chest. Not good to let these > things continue to do a slow-burn :-). > > > >You get > very touchy when some of seem to be preaching to bandhs or whatever in > Assam, and I can understand that. You really don't like NRAs in this > '>preaching mode'. > > > *** Unfortunately Ram, you got it wrong again. Not just you, quite a few > others as well who have been singing in chorus on this topic. > > It was not the act of the 'preaching' or 'scolding' that I took aim at. It > was for not being able to admit to the real source of the problem, but > instead picking on the easy targets. > > You all targeted the hapless people who cannot get any protection from the > police, who have no chance of getting justice from the courts in their > lifetimes, where corruption run rampant in all spheres of life, where they > have no protection against local 'dadas' who could intimidate them anytime, > any place--one can go on and on! > > *** But I know why you could not. That is because to admit to these problems > would ultimately lead to the Center's dereliction of its duties, the Indian > lawmakers and Indian justice. That you cannot handle, and so you go to the > easy targets --- the 'cowardly' people of Assam, isn't it? > > > When we see > something wrong, we are not there to preach & gloat, but really to > >make some small effort > > *** I see nothing wrong with that. By all means, go at it. But let us be > real, > and let us not attempt to ignore the real crux of the problem. > > > Maybe you are doing the same thing when India > related issues come about, but most times all we see how you deftly > >relate even minor local problems in Assam to Indraprastha. > > *** So I am attempting to blame the innocent Center on the sly, am I? > Well, Ram, I thought you are in agreement that Indian governance needs > dramatic reforms. The Tehelka story is just one more reason. If you agree, > how do you > characterize my very open and direct way of calling the spade a spade on the > issue of the Center that has cornered all significant powers, but is asleep > at the wheel on these issues? What is so deft about my pointing out what is > sitting on your face :-)? > > Also, I am NOT doing the same thing as you guys claim you are: I do not go > for the easy trgets :-). > > > > > > > > At 11:36 PM -0500 5/1/05, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > C'da, > > I really agree with most of what you are saying about this particular > incident. > But, it is not a stray incident in India. It has happened (against > Muslims and other minorities, Dalits Etc). It has happened in Nellie, > in Gujarat etc. No one likes them, but they happen due to many > reasons. There have also been situations where Muslims (where > majority) have been errant too. > What all this proves is that religious/caste/cultural tolerance needs > to expand not just within the cities, but in the villages too. How > that is going to happen, I don't know, but happen it must. > > Now, having agreed with you on the main theme, my earlier post to your > mail was really not just centered on this particular incident. You get > very touchy when some of seem to be preaching to bandhs or whatever in > Assam, and I can understand that. You really don't like NRAs in this > 'preaching mode'. > > But in the same breath, you loose no occassion to preach and advice > the GOI, the Central Govt., the Desi Democracy, rule of law etc , etc. > In many postings you have not wasted any breath to come down hard on > anything remotely going wrong in India. Do you see a dichotomy here? > Where is your great sense of fairplay(that we have seen over the > years)? > > To tell you the truth, most of us are Assam centric. We would want > things to move at a faster pace, more development etc. When we see > something wrong, we are not there to preach & gloat, but really to > make some small effort. Maybe you are doing the same thing when India > related issues come about, but most times all we see how you deftly > relate even minor local problems in Assam to Indraprastha. > Well, just got that off my chest, feel much better now. I know, you > wont mind at my discourse :-) > > --Ram > > > > > > > > On 5/1/05, Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Ram: > > > > I understand the urge to try and use a set of pre-owned arguments off > > the shelf to reply to some unpleasant news in a hurry. If it fits, > > fine. No harm done. > > But if it does not fit, it could look rather awkward, as it does in > > this instance :-). > > > > >***If only they could be--- > > > > Those were from a response to certain recommendations made in Assam Net. > > > > In this case, I don't know that anybody has made any recommendation, > > or even commented on them. I just posted it for Netters' information. > > No doubt judgements were made by the desis themselves,Tehelka. If the > > editorial part hurt, a rebuttal is always possible. > > > > Can ex-pat desis make some recommendations to the Kannadi culprits? > > I am sure some could be found to lecture them. > > > > Would it mean anything? > > Take a wild guess :-). > > > > But on the other hand: > > > > Is it a blot on these people's ethics and their civilization? > > Yes. > > Does it reflect on their faith? > > Yes. > > Does it reflect on all who identify themselves as Hindus? > > No, never! > > Does it indicate an absence of the rule of law? > > Yes. > > Can and do these happen in other parts of India ? > > Yes. But not everywhere. > > Should I or anyone else feel guilty about it? > > That would depend on if I or others identify with anything that > > was involved. > > I don't. I have no feeling of guilt or responsibility. > > What about others? > > If the shoes fit, they would have to wear them. > > > > Do I have responsibility to make any recommendation? > > Not on your life. > > Are there others who have such a responsibility? > > That is for them to decide. If they have a tradition to uphold, > > they may. If there is pattern to their reactions, and they wish > > to maintain it, it is their choice. > > > > What does Umesh's comments mean? > > Since Catholics in Central America do similar things,as he claims, > > their religion is no better than the Kannadi culprits' version > > of Hinduism. > > Where did the need for this comparison come from? > > I am not sure, but it must be from a deep seated inferiority > complex > > about his own faith, Hinduism, that he harbors. And since he > identifies > > with all those who sport Hinduism, his feeling of guilt is > > troubling him. Or maybe he shares the political beliefs of the > > Bajrang Dal terrorists. > > > > Should he though? I mean do ALL those who sport a Hindu identity have > > to share in the guilt of transgressions by some, like these Kannadi > > culprits? > > > > That depends on whether he believes in individuality and > > individual responsibility. I have seen many fine and educated > people > > people from India, who are so deeply confused, that they are > > ready and willing to demonize everyone who share an > identity--national > > , cultural or religious, for the sins of a few and hold all > > responsible. > > > > For example, those who massacred Sikhs pursuant to Indira Gandhi's > > assassination by her Sikh security guards. Or Gujaratis who > massacred > > Muslims after Godhra. Or those who hold ALL Muslims responsible for > > the crimes of the violent fundamentalist segments. Or those who > hold > > the present day Muslims of India responsible for the atrocities of > > Mughal invaders. > > > > So on and so forth. > > > > What do you think Ram? Am I off target :-)? > > > > c-da > > > > > > At 9:43 AM -0500 5/1/05, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > > >C'da, > > > > > >>For What? Hajabba (left) and Hassanabba at the hands of the mob ( In > > >the >Tehelka Website, two people on the ground, naked- cm) > > > > > >This should never have happened. This is a shame. > > > > > >Don't you think these 'uneducated, barbaric villagers' ought to be > > >re-educated by NRIs/NRAs? > > > > > >** > > >***If only they could be like the ones who fled from Assam(India), who > have to > > >fight for their existence in far-off foreign lands like the USA, UK > > >etc. every day, where they cannot get any protection from the police, > > >where they have no chance of getting justice from the courts in their > > >lifetimes, where corruption/crime/barbaric rituals run rampant in all > > >spheres of life, > > >where they have no protection against local 'dadas' who could > > >intimidate them anytime, any place--one can go on and on! > > > > > >I think you are so right. Go ahead and give these adha-mora ( > > >half-dead), coward Oxomiyas(Kanadiga village bumkins) the verbal uttom > > >modhyom like they deserve. After all we have earned it, with our own > > >successes against the unimaginable odds, haven't we? ******* > > > > > >:-) :-) Just substituted a few key words > > > > > >--Ram > > > > > > > > > > > >On 5/1/05, Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >> > > >> Barbaric India > > >> > > >> THEIR SHAME, OUR SHAME > > >> > > >> Rightwing activists strip two people for buying cattle > > >> > > >> By Chinmayee Manjunath > > >> Udupi, Karnataka > > >> For What? Hajabba (left) and Hassanabba at the hands of the mob ( In > the > > >> Tehelka Website, two people on the ground, naked- cm) > > >> > > >> As more people gathered, the father and son were stripped in front of > the > > >> villagers, who remained spectators. The tormentors then called a > > >> photographer to record the show > > >> When 70-year-old Hajabba bought a calf on March 13, little did he know > he > > >> would have to pay a big cost for it. That he would be beaten up and > paraded > > >> naked. That his 29-year-old son, Hassanabba, would suffer the same > fate. Or > > >> that his 68-year-old friend Kanthapujari and his son Satish would be > jailed > > >> for a crime they had nothing to do with. The four, belonging to > Moodubettu > > >> village in Udupi district, are the latest victims of the communal > tension > > >> that is eating into this picturesque region of Karnataka. > > >> > > >> On the morning of March 13, Hajabba visited Kanthapujari at his home; > the > > >> two regularly dealt in livestock. On his way back, he met another > villager, > > >> Bhogushetty, who negotiated the sale of a calf. Paying him an advance > of Rs > > >> 50, Hajabba agreed to take the calf in the evening. At 7pm, when > Hajabba was > > >> on his way in his Maruti van to collect the calf, Bhogushetty stopped > him > > >> near Kanthapujari's home and handed over the cattle. Moments later, a > crowd > > >> of around 10 people surrounded the vehicle and dragged Hajabba out. > "They > > >> just started beating me," recalls Hajabba, sitting on a bed at the > hospital > > >> where he spent two weeks after the attack. The assaulters were members > of > > >> the Hindu Yuva Sena (hys), a rightwing organisation with presence in > the > > >> region. Meanwhile, Hassanabba, worried why his father had not > returned, set > > >> out looking for him. "When I reached the spot, there were about 30 men > and > > >> they began to thrash me as well," he says, flanked by his father at > the > > >> hospital. > > >> > > >> They were then bundled into autos and driven to the helipad at Adi > Udupi, > > >> about 2 km away. As more people gathered, the father and son were > stripped > > >> and paraded in front of the villagers, who remained mute spectators. > "Nobody > > > > came to help us. Everyone just stood and watched," recounts a > traumatised > > >> Hajabba. > > >> > > >> The hys then called in a photographer. "They made us pose, saying > nobody > > >> should ever buy calves after this," says Hassanabba, who lost > consciousness > > >> soon after. By then, police reached the helipad from Malpe, a > neighbouring > > >> town. They retrieved Hajabba's clothes and took him to the police > station. > > >> Hassanabba, however, was missing. "I kept telling them to look for him > but > > >> they ignored me," says Hajabba. He was questioned till midnight. But > there > > >> was still no sign of Hassanabba. "I don't know where I was all night > but > > >> when I got up at six in the morning, I was lying near the helipad, > dressed," > > >> says the father, recalling the events of that harrowing night. > > >> > > >> The next morning, when Hajabba registered a complaint, Kanthapujari > and > > >> Satish were taken to the police station. "They kept asking us where we > were > > >> the last night and we told them we were at home," says Kanthapujari. A > heart > > >> patient, he was admitted to a government hospital in Udupi on March 16 > under > > >> police surveillance and was discharged only last week. > > >> > > >> "Unfortunately, we got the news about the attack late and by the time > my > > >> men reached the spot of attack, the son was missing. We suspect that > > >> Kanthapujari was the middleman and Satish has close links with the > Bajrang > > >> Dal," says S. Murugan, the Udupi superintendent of police. > > >> > > >> By late evening on March 14, the two were charged with being abettors > of > > > > the crime and jailed. Suresh, Kanthapujari's second son, says his > > >father may > > >> have been implicated because he is known to do business with Hajabba. > But > > >> Satish, he claims, has nothing to do with the hys. Bhogushetty's name > has > > >> not been mentioned in the complaints filed with the police. Satish, > who was > > >> in hiding for some days, was arrested and released last week along > with his > > >> father. > > >> > > >> The prime accused, Yeshpal Suvarna and Prakash Bhandari, both leaders > of > > >> the hys, have been missing since March 14. Several members of the hys > have > > >> also gone underground and attempts to contact Vasudev Bhat, a > prominent > > >> leader of the outfit in the region, were fruitless. > > >> > > >> Murugan admits tension has been on the rise and it is not the first > time > > >> trade of cattle has sparked off violence. Other incidents occurred in > > >> Mangalore, Karkala and Manipal, a region that has had a dominant > presence of > > >> Muslims and Christians. > > >> > > >> Weeks before the Adi Udupi incident, Vanitha, a factory worker in her > early > > >> 20s, went missing under mysterious circumstances in Hejamadi village. > She > > >> had asked her neighbour, Ismail, to help her find a better job. > Activists of > > >> the hys attacked both for speaking to each other. When they filed a > > >> complaint, Vanitha was threatened by the hys, and was asked to > withdraw her > > >> complaint. When she refused, Vanitha was assaulted. No one knows about > her > > >> whereabouts. Till now no investigation has taken place while Ismail is > in > > >> hiding and Vanitha's brother, an eye-witness, is also missing. > > >> > > >> Locals cite several such incidents. On March 19, a ceremony was held > at a > > >> dargah in Udupi. It was attended by thousands. A local Kannada daily > printed > > >> a photograph of two people carrying a green flag with the caption, > "The > > >> Pakistani flag in Udupi." Protests began soon, and though the paper > was > > >> forced by the police to print an erratum the next day, the town > remained > > >> tense. Days later, on March 26, bjp mla Raghupathy Bhat led a > procession in > > >> Udupi. Witnesses say Bhat withdrew from the scene as members of the > Sangh > > >> Parivar began to stone Muslim-owned shops en route. Bhat was not > available > > >> for comments. > > >> > > >> Locals live in constant fear and refuse to even speak about the hys > or the > > >> Bajrang Dal. The region, where different communities have co-existed > > >> peacefully for decades, has become fraught with communal tension. "We > always > > >> lived together. Why these people cause trouble, I never understand," > says > > >> Kanthapujari. > > >> > > >> > > >> May 07 , 2005 > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Assam mailing list > > >> [email protected] > > > > http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam > > >> > > >> Mailing list FAQ: > > >> http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html > > >> To unsubscribe or change options: > > >> http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ Assam mailing list [email protected] http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
