>The sanctimony of kharkhowas and other assorted desis in the USA or in Europe >spring from the fact that they do not have to resort to CORRUPTION, because >societies here have functioning institutions that provide deterrence to profiting >from joining the crowd of corruption. So they think they are children of superior >gods. And they admonish those back in Assam to be like themselves. >That is their solution.Infantile? Yes.
C'da, Ah! are we at it again, preaching the preachers? :-) > You were probably too young, but there was a time when Indira Gandhi > abolished democracy and instituted autocratic rule. You should have seen how > India shaped up in a hurry. Why? Because there was this fear that if they > did not, next stop might be the jail. While this is a solution, ie use the stick to teach these damn Indians how to lead an uncorrupt life, IMHO we are really attacking the SYMPTOM and not the disease. For a nation to be corruption-free (most of the time), public consiciousness and ethics come into play. Individuals have the burden not to fall into corruption whether big brother is looking or not. IMHO, if something like that cannot be achieved by a nation at some level, then today, you may institute an autocratic rule to bring back things in order. Tomorrow if you relax, corruption will be back. So, ultimately, it all boils down to : Does the individual in a society wants to be corruption-free? If a majority of the society wants a country without corruption, you will have that country. --Ram On 5/3/05, Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > That was a breath of fresh air Manoj. > > I was afraid I will suffocate from the exhaust of the experts whose world > view is limited by the walls of the intellectual well they take refuse in, > willingly. > > >we need another Gandhi today, just to fight corruption at the national > level. > > > *** There are many Gandhi like people in India. It might come as a surprise > to some, but I will bet you a rupee that even in Assam such people could be > found. > > Unfortunately Gandhis do not count any more.Besides, there has to be a CAUSE > to energize people to flock to a Gandhi's leadership. People realize they > live only once. There is too little time, and if they can't make it now, > they never will. So they join the crowd. More than likely the sanctimonious > Assam Net preachers would join the crowd too. > > However if there are consequences of joining the here-and-now crowd to be > seen, like for example a few ministers, a few MPs a few IAS types, a few > Governors, a few generals, a few CEOs going to prison, you will see the > difference instantly. > > The sanctimony of kharkhowas and other assorted desis in the USA or in > Europe spring from the fact that they do not have to resort to CORRUPTION, > because societies here have functioning institutions that provide deterrence > to profiting from joining the crowd of corruption. So they think they are > children of superior gods. And they admonish those back in Assam to be like > themselves. > That is their solution. > > Infantile? Yes. > > You were probably too young, but there was a time when Indira Gandhi > abolished democracy and instituted autocratic rule. You should have seen how > India shaped up in a hurry. Why? Because there was this fear that if they > did not, next stop might be the jail. > > Or take the ULFA in the beginning. They were applauded because they meted > out summary justice on those widely known to be corrupt. > > Unfortunately neither autocracy, nor insurgent justice could be depended on > to provide fair or just rule. Therefore there is little alternative but to > depend on a FUNCTIONING democracy. > > That is where the problem is: the dysfunctional Indian state. > > How could that be made functional? Can that be achieved by a Gandhi, a > Kalam, or an ABV or Assam Netters spouting pithy piety? You take a guess > :-). > > It could be done ONLY by instituting dramatic reforms to India's democracy, > where the essential institutions that form democratic rule begin to function > like they need to. It must be done by its crop of leaders. Not one or a few > icons like Gandhi or Mao -- but the collective intelligentsia. > > Is it possible ? Can India rise to close ranks in pursuit of a common goal > for the entire nation? > > Unfortunately I don't believe so. It is just too fractured, its constituents > have no commonality to come together on. > > But I would love to see myself being proven wrong. > > > cm > > > > > > > > > > > At 6:14 AM +0000 5/3/05, manoj talukdar wrote: > > > In my humble opinion, corruption is not a problem that only the state of > Assam face. The entire nation is in the grips of corruption like never > before. the tv channel Star news broadcasts a sting progaramme called > SANSANI at 11 pm, where they are unmasking a huge no of corrupt govt > officers on a daily basis. > To talk of fighting corruption in Assam only is I think not very practical, > unless a similar movement engulfs the whole nation. I think , we need > another Gandhi today, just to fight corruption at the national level. > > Manoj > > > > > > > > On Tue, 03 May 2005 Rajen Barua wrote : > >NGOs are the lubricating oil for proper functioning of the Democracy. That > I understand and you understand. > >But the question is how to make the people of Assam understand. > >That is the question to day. > >Rajen da > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: umesh sharma > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 11:24 PM > > Subject: Re: [Assam] something about corruption > > > > > > Rajen-da, > > > > If everyone is corrupt then only one person cannot make the change - it > has to be a group efort. By refering to an NGO i meant a group who is > concerned. A local group which can collect data and take concrete, positive > action -- perhaps some student group - as a part time activity -do some > research, collect data--with no strikes or demonstrations. > > > > Here in US I have learnt that research does have value--- the govt > wouldn't do research to reveal its mistakes. Traditionally this role has > been with the newspapers. But a reporter hardly has the resources or the > time to do indepth study, given these times of sensationalism. > > > > So it must be with a group of educated people - maybe some educated > housewives based in Assam -who can phone people and get data. > > > > Umesh > > > > Rajen Barua <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >There are only three members of the society who can remove corruption > ----They are father,mother and elementary school >teacher." > > > > I think what AK is saying has some truth in it. > > First let us see what he is saying. > > He is not saying that the parents and elementary school teachers of the > present corrupt leaders were also corrupt, and that is why the present > leaders are now corrupt. What he is saying, on the other hand, is that > corruption is basically a moral issue, and that the parents and the teacher > did not instill enough upon their children and students a high moral value > in their time. > > > > This is however only one part of the equation, but a great part. This > is a necessary but not a sufficient condition, we may say. In Indian > corrupt socities, and Assamese in particular, we lack this morale education. > In Assamese society now a days nobody really believe that" Xotyor xodai joi" > > > > I think the 20th century will go down in history as the worst century > so far as morale value is concerned for various reasons. > > > > Another big part of the equation is that the society in which we live > must not condone corruption if it wants to stop corruption. But in present > Assamese society specially, we have been seeing that society not only > condone corruption but actually encourages corruption. I still remember when > I first joined Oil India long time ago, one of my uncles asked me, "Now that > you joined this company, do you think you will have any 'bahira poisa'? And > without 'bahira poisa' how do you think you will be able to manage in these > hard days?" > > > > The above goes a long way to show how morally degraded the Assamese > middle class have been. This may be new phenomenon in Assamese society may > be developed after the WW-II; but that is the state of affair. The son is > considered successful if he is able to buy good property in Guwahati, build > a good house, and be rich. No question is ever asked in the family how he is > making the money. It is a sign of unofficial recognition of a 'macho' man. > He become such a 'macho' man that he even become eligible to criticise about > corruption in government administration. He can even donate to the local > Namghor and will be honored as a very religous man. Such is the stae of > corruption in Assamese society. > > > > In western societies, both these parts are strong. They have a high > morale elementary school education, strong Christian family values at home, > and a society who does not condine corruption. That may be one reason why > corruption is less here. > > > > There are various faces and aspects of corruption. Corruptioin is there > in practically every society to some extent. But in my view it is worst in > Assamese socity. Assamese society probably first learned of these corrupton > from their elder brothers the Bengalis during the first phase of British > rule in Assam. However, there is one alarming aspects of public corruption > in Assam compared to the other states. While in other sates, in spite of > corruption a project is get done may be at a higher cost. This can be seen > fromn the results. But if road conditions and results of other projects in > Assam are any measure, in Assam, all money seem to be spent simply in > corruption itself, and no money is left for the project itself. > > > > It is like trying to fell an mango with a 'phormuthi'. Without sending > a 'phormuthi' you cannot expect to get the mango. If we consider the > 'phormuthi' as the corruption, in other states you loose the 'phormuthi' but > at least you get the 'am' or mango. But in Assam, you send the 'phormuthi' > and you loose both. This is what we say in Assamese : "Am-wo gol, > phormuthi-wo gol'. > > > > The state of affairs shows a high moral degradation of in every lavel > of the Assamese the society. > > One clue to end the situation that the anti-process must be started at > the bottom and at the top at the same time. But that is just a clue in my > personal view. > > > > Rajen Barua > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 8:54 PM > > Subject: [Assam] something about corruption > > > > > > What would be the best way to bring down the level of corruption to > the minimum,if not completely,in a state like Assam? President A Kalam,in > his Republic day address to the nation said " There are only three members > of the society who can remove corruption ----They are father,mother and > elementary school teacher." > > > > Is corruption then a problem of moral character ? Or,is it something > to do with the transformation of our system? > > > > What is your view ? > > > > KJD > > > > > > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Assam mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam > > > > Mailing list FAQ: > > http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html > > To unsubscribe or change options: > > http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Assam mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam > > > > Mailing list FAQ: > > http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html > > To unsubscribe or change options: > > http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com > > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Assam mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam > > > > Mailing list FAQ: > > http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html > > To unsubscribe or change options: > > http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam > >_______________________________________________ > >Assam mailing list > >[email protected] > >http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam > > > >Mailing list FAQ: > >http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html > >To unsubscribe or change options: > >http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam > > > > _______________________________________________ > Assam mailing list > [email protected] > http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam > > Mailing list FAQ: > http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html > To unsubscribe or change options: > http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam > > > _______________________________________________ > Assam mailing list > [email protected] > http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam > > Mailing list FAQ: > http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html > To unsubscribe or change options: > http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam > > > _______________________________________________ Assam mailing list [email protected] http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam Mailing list FAQ: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html To unsubscribe or change options: http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
