>With people like Kalam and Premji behind the effort, I expect
some results.
*** Hopefulness is not the same thing as wishful thinking.
Hope, real hope that is, needs a sound, practical and
reality based foundation.
Alaxot sang-pota is not a good framework for hope.
I looked at Kalam's speech, parts of it that is. It is too
verbose and too full of chaff to take the time to go thru in
detail.
But I noticed the following:
I realize the President is a practical and accomplished man of
technology. Thus I would expect him to be mindful of details. But
either his speech-writer is not
or he is not too mindful of what he speaks out from this very
important pulpit of his.
Obviously he missed the MAIN point, lack of enforcement, or
the enforceability of these laws, preventing the system from
holding those entrusted with responsibilities accountable.
Everybody knows India is full of laws. Al they seem to accomplish
is empower the corrupt. It is not about having more laws. It is
about having far fewer, but enforceable, useful ones.
Is it a big mystery, or is it an unimportant detail?
You be the judge.
Not that it is a big deal, but in the same sentence I noticed the
Pres. suggesting that the laws are made by ministerjis. Are they? Is
this how desi-demokrasy works? Is that the President concept of Indian
parliamentary democracy?
Sorry, but I don't see what to pin my hopes on.
At 7:49 AM -0700 5/4/05, Dilip/Dil Deka wrote:
"While at it, try and answer the questions I raised after your agreement with Pres. Kalam's pleas, if you can." ---- We all know that prevention is better than cure. Enacting all kinds of laws and enforcing them strictly to catch the culprits, like you desire, will only produce a cure that is temporary. On the other hand prevention by educating and raising a new generation of Indians, as Mr. Kalam desires, will result in permanence. Only a start has been made in that direction. With people like Kalam and Premji behind the effort, I expect some results.
==================================================================
Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>It caused a lot of hardship like standing in front of an RBI clerk in Calcutta >office for six hours to get a document because I refused to pay him a bribe.Tsk, tsk. My heart goes out for you. Good for you. You are a credit to your kind :-).On the other hand, I did pay a bribe to a court clerk to get me a birth certificate in Kolkata, which I had to have a foot-path lawyer manufacture for me, since none existed. I knew it was wrong. But I was weak, unlike you.But what are you going to do about it? What is President Kalam going to do about it? You are good and I am bad.But tell me whose kind is running India today? Your kind or my kind?Would I do it again, if I had to? You betcha I would.I will give you another example:My nephew was harassed by a passport control guy at Kolkata on a return trip from Assam, for some clerical inconsistency in hisIndian passport. My nephew, who was in front of me at the line, lost his cool after endless arguments. We were already getting very close to departure. I dragged him behind me, took up position infront of the window and asked the guy what he wanted. He said'ja khusi apnar' ( whatever pleases you). I gave him ten dollars,and we were on our way. There were people all around us.Was I wrong in bribing? Of course I was. But I was not going to leave my nephew behind in Kolkata. I did what I had to do.From your description of your moral uprightness, you probably would not have done that. But what are you going to do about it? What will President Kalam do about it? Tell me though whose kind is running India today? Your kind or my kind?The point is, you are making an untenable argument.Your question about road building corner cutting or whatever are quite hypothetical. I can answer yes, or no. A yes won't make me the cause of India's corruption problems, and no would not make me holier than thou, or not even at par with your integrity. But who is running things, and how will you change it?While at it, try and answer the questions I raised after your agreement with Pres. Kalam's pleas, if you can.At 1:47 PM -0700 5/3/05, Dilip/Dil Deka wrote:
O'Mahanta,
You said, " Depending on my circumstances, I might. It may not have to be a cash bribe. I might look the other way, considering that it is the norm anyway, and that I won't have to pay even if I get caught; for a seat for my child at the Holy Whatsmacallit School. Or a piece of land I might be able to buy at a reasonable price at Hengerabari. Or for treatment for my ailing uncle at the Uptown Nursing Home. Catch my drift?
And now can I ask you the same question, with the same conditions?"
DD: What I gather from your (personal) answer is that depending on your convenience and needs, you would bend your moral values that you inherited from your parents. Did I read you correctly?
You asked me how I'd answer the question with the conditions you set. I definitely would not accept bribe to augment my income so that I can send my children to Holy Whatsamacallit or buy a property in Narikolbasti or Hengerabari. A main reason why I remained in USA is related - even on my limited income I do not have to ask for graft/bribe for a decent living, and also I do not have to offer bribe to any one to get things done. Did I change after coming to USA? No, I respected the same moral values when I lived in India. It caused a lot of hardship like standing in front of an RBI clerk in Calcutta office for six hours to get a document because I refused to pay him a bribe. But I did not sway.
I have seen several postings in the net on moral values and their relativity. In my opinion either you have it or you don't, there are no conditional situations.
The last question I asked you was about taking bribe. Let's go another way. Let's say you were managing a road upgrade project near Namti and you could divert 1 lakh of rupees to yourself from the Rs. 1 crore project if the compacting requirements were relaxed. Let's also say that you need the money to replace your wife's old car. Would you cheat the poor people of Namti by giving them an inferior road?
O'Deka
===================================================================
Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
At 7:43 AM -0700 5/3/05, Dilip/Dil Deka wrote:
O'Mahanta,
Suppose you (personally) had stayed in India and were working for Guwahati Development Authority as an architect-manager. Would you accept bribe to allow someone to build an apartment complex in violation of the codes or would you even think about it? If not, why not?
Give me a straight answer, without asking me a question in return. Then we can discuss more.
O'Deka
Depending on my circumstances, I might. It may not have to be a cash bribe. I might look the other way, considering that it is the norm anyway, and that I won't have to pay even if I get caught; for a seat for my child at the Holy Whatsmacallit School. Or a piece of land I might be able to buy at a reasonable price at Hengerabari. Or for treatment for my ailing uncle at the Uptown Nursing Home.
Catch my drift?
And now can I ask you the same question, with the same conditions?
O'm
Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
O'Deka:
Are you suggesting that your generation and mine grew up without any moral foundation, either from home or from elementary school?
To accept your contention would mean that we did not, that is why the nations leadership today--your contemporaries and mine, are so without any moral compunction.
Of course I reject the notion entirely. Because I know that most of the people I grew up with are capable of being as moral as Dilip Deka or Rajen Barua or Ram Sarabgapani or any such icon of kharkhowa-morality.The other questions that comes to mind are:
1: If parents of our generation or those after us too,
were/are incapable of providing the moral foundations to their
progeny, HOW will it change for the other generations to come?
Are you not implying that because Dilip Deka or Rajen Barua or Kalam
Saheb wishes so, it will happen miraculously? Would that not be a
profoundly simplistic wish? A delusion in fact?
2: What has been the state of elementary education in Assam or
the vast majority of schools in India? And who teach those kids?
Where do the teachers get their own MORAL FOUNDATIONS to pass on
to their charges--the pupils?
If society's most privileged, the parents of the present , corrupt
generation that leads the nation failed to impart moral education
to their progeny, at their homes; how do you suppose the high-school
graduates or at most a BA from a local college who are the elementary
school teachers, have the moral wherewithal to instruct that future
MORAL generation to save India from itself?
3: Furthermore, what is the source of morality in India? Where do
the people get their moral education from? Do they derive it from
their religious scriptures and leaders, or from secular ethics?
In the former, if it is lacking today, where will it come for better
moral foundations tomorrow? And if the religious teachers were
either ignorant or frauds yesterday or are so today, how would
things change, I mean unless one is depending on bigger and more
temples or more effective bribing of the gods?
If it were the latter, secular ethics that has proven to be
schmethics, then who will train better teachers to impart truly
secular ethics on the generations to come? And where will they get the
bribe money to go get those plum elementary school teache jobs for life?
Need I go on? I am sure you catch my drift. Now don't go silent on us to
leave us reeling in our own despair. Tell us how!
The least you can do :-).
O'm
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What would be the best way to bring down the level of corruption to the minimum,if not completely,in a state like Assam? President A Kalam,in his Republic day address to the nation said " There are only three members of the society who can remove corruption ----They are father,mother and elementary school teacher."
Is corruption then a problem of moral character ? Or,is it something to do with the transformation of our system?
What is your view ?
KJD
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