Indeed, usually they don't when it comes to old companies with a long history, and only as long as you can prove a rock solid point/case. We have faced some ugly situations even with "respectable" companies who were in the telecoms business for a decade or more. If we had not covered many possible angles we would literally have been cheated out of thousands of dollars.
On the other hand, a new company with a very short history does not have that much of a reputation to jeopardize by fraudulent practices. Wes Reece wrote: > True, but most companies don't throw their reputations away. > > > > > 2009/11/15 Vlasis Hatzistavrou (KTI) <vh...@kinetix.gr > <mailto:vh...@kinetix.gr>> > > Well, trade references, due diligence etc are usually OK, but since > these things refer to the past of a company, you never know when/if this > company which you just decided to get in business with decides to turn > to the "dark side"... > > I mean future payments are not 100% guaranteed because of a good past. > > Best regards, > Vlasis Hatzistavrou. > > Wes Reece wrote: > > What about simply asking for trade references and due diligence > on your > > potential customer? > > > > > > 2009/11/3 Vlasis Hatzistavrou (KTI) <vh...@kinetix.gr > <mailto:vh...@kinetix.gr> > > <mailto:vh...@kinetix.gr <mailto:vh...@kinetix.gr>>> > > > > Of, course, the escrow agent has to actually do something > more than just > > "guard" the money. > > > > Now there are escrow agencies which receive CDRs from both > parties in > > real time or in bathes every few hours. So, in case of a > dispute the > > escrow agent acts as a referee, too. > > > > Best regards, > > Vlasis Hatzistavrou. > > > > > > Mindaugas Kezys wrote: > > >>From our experience escrow is not good choice either. > Other side > > can argue > > > that service was bad/unusable and you will not get paid > for it. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Mindaugas Kezys > > > http://www.kolmisoft.com > > > VoIP Billing and Routing Solutions > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: asterisk-biz-boun...@lists.digium.com > <mailto:asterisk-biz-boun...@lists.digium.com> > > <mailto:asterisk-biz-boun...@lists.digium.com > <mailto:asterisk-biz-boun...@lists.digium.com>> > > > [mailto:asterisk-biz-boun...@lists.digium.com > <mailto:asterisk-biz-boun...@lists.digium.com> > > <mailto:asterisk-biz-boun...@lists.digium.com > <mailto:asterisk-biz-boun...@lists.digium.com>>] On Behalf Of Vlasis > > > Hatzistavrou (KTI) > > > Sent: 2009 m. lapkričio 2 d. 13:54 > > > To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion > > > Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] India VoIP termination - FRAUD- BE > > Careful > > > > > > Just my 2 cents: there are escrow, exchange & > clearinghouse services > > > that one can use in order to secure business. > > > > > > Simple prepay/postpay nowadays is too dangerous, not only with > > small & > > > unknown operators but even with large & well known > carriers. They too > > > will dispute just about anything... > > > > > > Best regards, > > > Vlasis Hatzistavrou. > > > > > > > > > Andy Spring wrote: > > >> Hi Dennis, first I am sorry to hear your bad news, but i can > > give you > > >> some suggestion, most of business men are trust parterns, > only very > > >> little are frauds, yes, sometimes, it is very difficult > to find > > out who > > >> is sincerely and who is not, but you can test them from a > very small > > >> order starting after you have dealt many many small business > > >> succesfully, then start big orders or stop contact with them. > > >> > > >> 2009/11/2 <i...@dialontel.com <mailto:i...@dialontel.com> > <mailto:i...@dialontel.com <mailto:i...@dialontel.com>> > > <mailto:i...@dialontel.com <mailto:i...@dialontel.com> > <mailto:i...@dialontel.com <mailto:i...@dialontel.com>>>> > > >> > > >> Hi Andy and Everyone in this Forum, > > >> > > >> Of course Andy we are very Angry. Last Year in total > we lost > > over > > >> 30K USD and Asia Telecom and BroadTelephone 3K USD > invoice > > is part > > >> of it. This has effect our business process to do > much more > > >> verification in giving post pay/prepay and it has > become almost > > >> impossible find out who is geniune and who is not. > > >> > > >> Even though These two companies are registered in UK > and USA its > > >> managed and owned by Pakistan guys (nothing personal to > > >> Pakistanies) so my point is we can not judge a > company from > > where it > > >> is registered. > > >> > > >> > > >> So I bilieve most effective way to minimize frauds is to > > keep close > > >> contact with trusted partners and their frauds, so > you can > > keep away > > >> from frauds. > > >> > > >> > > >> Thanks, > > >> Dennis S. > > >> DialOnTel Team > > >> <http://www.dialontel/> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> -------- Original Message -------- > > >> Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] India VoIP termination - > > FRAUD- BE > > >> Careful > > >> From: Andy Spring <andy...@gmail.com > <mailto:andy...@gmail.com> > > <mailto:andy...@gmail.com <mailto:andy...@gmail.com>> > <mailto:andy...@gmail.com <mailto:andy...@gmail.com> > > <mailto:andy...@gmail.com <mailto:andy...@gmail.com>>>> > > >> Date: Sun, November 01, 2009 5:15 am > > >> To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk > Discussion > > >> <asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com > <mailto:asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com> > > <mailto:asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com > <mailto:asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>> > > >> <mailto:asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com > <mailto:asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com> > > <mailto:asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com > <mailto:asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>>>> > > >> > > >> Haha... Maybe Dennis is very angry with them, > but what > > make me > > >> suprised is that the frauds are from UK and USA, > whose > > >> reputation are good and they also think > themselves come with > > >> good reputation, but also rubbish > > >> > > >> 2009/10/31 <i...@dialontel.com > <mailto:i...@dialontel.com> > > <mailto:i...@dialontel.com <mailto:i...@dialontel.com>> > <mailto:i...@dialontel.com <mailto:i...@dialontel.com> > > <mailto:i...@dialontel.com <mailto:i...@dialontel.com>>>> > > >> > > >> Hi All, > > >> > > >> DO NOT sell any minutes to BroadTelepone or > AsiaTelecom. > > >> They have a pending invoice to us for last 8 > months 3000 > > >> USD. Our company name is DialOnTel. we were > seling > > India to > > >> them. These companies are fraud based in UK > and USA. > > >> AsiaTelecom UK is currently on liquadation. > > >> > > >> Sikander - Director, Faruk -Tech guy never > response > > to our > > >> calls or emails. > > >> > > >> DO NOT Give post pay to them. > > >> > > >> My name is Dennis from DialOnTel. > > >> den...@dialontel.com > <mailto:den...@dialontel.com> <mailto:den...@dialontel.com > <mailto:den...@dialontel.com>> > > <mailto:den...@dialontel.com <mailto:den...@dialontel.com> > <mailto:den...@dialontel.com <mailto:den...@dialontel.com>>> > > >> i...@dialontel.com > <mailto:i...@dialontel.com> <mailto:i...@dialontel.com > <mailto:i...@dialontel.com>> > > <mailto:i...@dialontel.com <mailto:i...@dialontel.com> > <mailto:i...@dialontel.com <mailto:i...@dialontel.com>>> > > >> > > >> Sikander if you see this email you are most > welcome to > > >> contact me as you never response to our > emials or calls. > > >> > > >> Thanks, > > >> DialOnTel Team > > >> > > >> > > >> -------- Original Message -------- > > >> Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] India VoIP > termination > > >> From: Sikander Saeed > <sikan...@asiatele.net <mailto:sikan...@asiatele.net> > > <mailto:sikan...@asiatele.net <mailto:sikan...@asiatele.net>> > > >> <mailto:sikan...@asiatele.net > <mailto:sikan...@asiatele.net> > > <mailto:sikan...@asiatele.net <mailto:sikan...@asiatele.net>>>> > > >> Date: Fri, October 30, 2009 4:04 pm > > >> To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk > > Discussion > > >> <asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com > <mailto:asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com> > > <mailto:asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com > <mailto:asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>> > > >> <mailto:asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com > <mailto:asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com> > > <mailto:asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com > <mailto:asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>>>> > > >> > > >> BroadTelephone is based in USA and involve in > > wholesale > > >> and retail VoIP services in USA, Canada > and UK since > > >> last decade. We are looking for quality > route to > > India. > > >> Our targets are: > > >> > > >> India 919 mobile $0.0110 > > >> India 9194 $0.0125 > > >> India ROC 91 $0.0150 > > >> India Cities $0.0130 > > >> > > >> Our daily traffic is about 25,000 minutes > per day. > > >> Please let us know if you can provide > such service. > > >> > > >> Sikander Saeed > > >> BroadTelephone, Inc. > > >> www.broadtelephone.com > <http://www.broadtelephone.com> > > <http://www.broadtelephone.com> <http://www.broadtelephone.com/> > > >> > > >> > > >> Mitul Limbani wrote: > > >>> Brian, > > >>> > > >>> So if I m correct this would be a one of > retail > > customer > > > who needs to > > >>> call their indian partner company? > > >>> > > >>> Please email me in a bit more detail off the > > list, coz we > > > have helped > > >>> several US based companies optimize their > > communication > > > cost to their > > >>> indian counter part or indian offshore > units. > > >>> > > >>> And I think we can help your customer too. > > >>> > > >>> Thanks & Regards, > > >>> Mitul Limbani, > > >>> Founder & CEO, > > >>> Enterux Solutions Pvt. Ltd., > > >>> The Enterprise Linux Company (r), > > >>> http://www.enterux.com > <http://www.enterux.com/> > > >>> http://www.entVoice.com > <http://www.entvoice.com/> > > >>> > > >>> On 27-Oct-2009, at 7:30 AM, "Brian Franklin" > > > <bfrank...@ntginc.net <mailto:bfrank...@ntginc.net> > <mailto:bfrank...@ntginc.net <mailto:bfrank...@ntginc.net>>> > > <mailto:bfrank...@ntginc.net <mailto:bfrank...@ntginc.net> > <mailto:bfrank...@ntginc.net <mailto:bfrank...@ntginc.net>>> > > >>> wrote: > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>> I have an executive that needs low cost > > minutes to a > > > partner firm in > > >>>> India. Clear calls and low cost is the > > primary concern. > > >>>> > > >>>> Brian > > >>>> > > >>>> -----Original Message----- > > >>>> From: > asterisk-biz-boun...@lists.digium.com > <mailto:asterisk-biz-boun...@lists.digium.com> > > <mailto:asterisk-biz-boun...@lists.digium.com > <mailto:asterisk-biz-boun...@lists.digium.com>> > > > <mailto:asterisk-biz-boun...@lists.digium.com > <mailto:asterisk-biz-boun...@lists.digium.com> > > <mailto:asterisk-biz-boun...@lists.digium.com > <mailto:asterisk-biz-boun...@lists.digium.com>>> > > >>>> > [mailto:asterisk-biz-boun...@lists.digium.com > <mailto:asterisk-biz-boun...@lists.digium.com> > > <mailto:asterisk-biz-boun...@lists.digium.com > <mailto:asterisk-biz-boun...@lists.digium.com>>] On Behalf > > > Of mtlvoip > > >>>> Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 8:48 PM > > >>>> To: Commercial and Business-Oriented > Asterisk > > Discussion > > >>>> Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] USA to India > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> with what kind of features and in which > level > > of price > > > are your > > >>>> looking > > >>>> > > >>>> for? > > >>>> > > >>>> > -------------------------------------------------- > > >>>> From: "Brian Franklin" > <bfrank...@ntginc.net <mailto:bfrank...@ntginc.net> > > <mailto:bfrank...@ntginc.net <mailto:bfrank...@ntginc.net>>> > > > <mailto:bfrank...@ntginc.net <mailto:bfrank...@ntginc.net> > <mailto:bfrank...@ntginc.net <mailto:bfrank...@ntginc.net>>> > > >>>> Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 9:32 PM > > >>>> To: "Commercial and Business-Oriented > Asterisk > > > Discussion" > > >>>> <asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com > <mailto:asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com> > > <mailto:asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com > <mailto:asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>>> > > > <mailto:asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com > <mailto:asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com> > > <mailto:asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com > <mailto:asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com>>> > > >>>> Subject: [asterisk-biz] USA to India > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>>> Looking for quality international SIP > > > termination...particularly to > > >>>>> India. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Any suggestions? > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ > > >>>>> --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by > > > http://www.api-digital.com <http://www.api-digital.com/>-- > > >>>>> asterisk-biz mailing list > > >>>>> To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: > > >>>>> > > http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-biz > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>> > _______________________________________________ > > >>>> --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by > > > http://www.api-digital.com <http://www.api-digital.com/>-- > > >>>> asterisk-biz mailing list > > >>>> To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: > > >>>> > > http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-biz > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > _______________________________________________ > > >>>> --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by > > > http://www.api-digital.com <http://www.api-digital.com/>-- > > >>>> asterisk-biz mailing list > > >>>> To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: > > >>>> > > http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-biz > > >>>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > > >>> --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by > > > http://www.api-digital.com <http://www.api-digital.com/>-- > > >>> asterisk-biz mailing list > > >>> To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: > > >>> > > http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-biz > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > >> > _______________________________________________ > > >> --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by > > >> http://www.api-digital.com-- > > > <http://www.api-digital.com--/> > > >> asterisk-biz mailing list > > >> To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: > > >> > > http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-biz > > >> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by > > >> http://www.api-digital.com-- > > <http://www.api-digital.com--/> > > >> > > >> asterisk-biz mailing list > > >> To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: > > >> > http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-biz > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> andy > > >> andy...@gmail.com <mailto:andy...@gmail.com> > <mailto:andy...@gmail.com <mailto:andy...@gmail.com>> > > <mailto:andy...@gmail.com <mailto:andy...@gmail.com> > <mailto:andy...@gmail.com <mailto:andy...@gmail.com>>> > > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by > > >> http://www.api-digital.com-- > <http://www.api-digital.com--/> > > >> > > >> asterisk-biz mailing list > > >> To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: > > >> http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-biz > > >> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by > > http://www.api-digital.com-- > > >> <http://www.api-digital.com--/> > > >> > > >> asterisk-biz mailing list > > >> To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: > > >> http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-biz > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> andy > > >> andy...@gmail.com <mailto:andy...@gmail.com> > <mailto:andy...@gmail.com <mailto:andy...@gmail.com>> > > <mailto:andy...@gmail.com <mailto:andy...@gmail.com> > <mailto:andy...@gmail.com <mailto:andy...@gmail.com>>> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by > http://www.api-digital.com-- > > >> > > >> asterisk-biz mailing list > > >> To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: > > >> http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-biz > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by > http://www.api-digital.com-- > > > > > > asterisk-biz mailing list > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: > > > http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-biz > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by > http://www.api-digital.com-- > > > > > > asterisk-biz mailing list > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: > > > http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-biz > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by > http://www.api-digital.com-- > > > > asterisk-biz mailing list > > To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: > > http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-biz > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Thank you, > > > > -Wes- > > _______________________________________________ > --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- > > asterisk-biz mailing list > To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: > http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-biz > > > > > -- > Thank you, > > -Wes- _______________________________________________ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-biz mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-biz