Hi Ian This assumes full back stick still has an effect!
If the aircraft has an airbrake operated main-wheel brake, locking the wheel (as you can in ASK21) may assist a ground loop as the CofG (and skidding main-wheel) is now swinging around the nose wheel firmly attached to the ground. Thus closing the brake might not help. The Puchatek has an ineffective hand operated main-wheel brake and the handle is hard to find below the seat, so would not provide this assistance. Cheers Michael -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ian McPhee Sent: Tuesday, 27 February 2007 2:39 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] RE: Another fatality Reading flight manual for Grob103c III in emergency section and it says brake off, stick full back and start ground loop 30m before fence. Ian M ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek Ruddock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." <aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net> Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 11:06 AM Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] RE: Another fatality Is perhaps the groundloop technique of pushing forward on the stick and applying full rudder inappropriate for a nosewheeel glider? > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:aus-soaring- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Shirley > Sent: Tuesday, 27 February 2007 10:17 AM > To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' > Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] RE: Another fatality > > Hi Ian > > Good point. No one has experimented to establish at what speed a Puchatek > (and perhaps many other nose-wheel gliders) lose elevator & rudder > authority. John Viney agrees we should do this experiment. If the LKSC > Puchatek is written off it would be a good opportunity to do this test - I > have passed on the idea to the committee. > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ian McPhee > Sent: Tuesday, 27 February 2007 9:56 AM > To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] RE: Another fatality > > I am not sure but believe there are certain nose wheel gliders that are > difficult to ground loop (KRO3A just goes straight when nose wheel is on > ground and no way can you steer it). Perhaps as such aircraft come into the > country they could be fitted with the "dutch wire lifting bar" to inside of > canopy as part of MAR1 at import (like pull up seat belts etc). The dutch > have done engineering and ALL dutch gliders have same. I do know Paul > Mathews had same fitted to one of his gliders when flying around Gulcong and > > said it is easy to get to use. > > Just a thought...........Ian McPhee > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Parncutt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'" > <aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net> > Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 9:19 PM > Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] RE: Another fatality > > > > Given the amount of incidents which have occurred with aerodrome perimeter > > fences especially in gliding, perhaps thought should be given to changing > > the design of these fences to make them more forgiving. > > Possibilities may include some sort of weak link system in each wire or > > perhaps sprung sections which may allow the canopy to deflect the wire. > > > > I'm sure there is enough ingenuity within the gliding movement to come up > > with some ideas to make these fences safer whilst still performing their > > function. > > > > John Parncutt > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bruce > > Taylor > > Sent: Monday, 26 February 2007 8:24 PM > > To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. > > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] RE: Another fatality > > > > Good call, Mitch. > > > > The only addition I would like to make is that it seems the > > pilot/instructor > > had very few options... he was released at low altitude without enough > > energy to clear the fence, and (thinking through the evidence I have > > heard) > > with a downburst happening somewhere behind him. This leaves him with an > > increasing tailwind, and if he was touching down somewhere near the stall, > > he is approaching the fence with no control response, in a > > nosewheel-equipped glider. He DID try to groundloop, with no response. > > > > Very tough for all, especially the instructor. > > > > BT. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Mitchell Preston" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." > > <aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net> > > Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 6:48 PM > > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] RE: Another fatality > > > > > >> Fair comment, Ron, however in this case we should perhaps refrain from > >> any judgement (deliberate or otherwise) until a more suitable time. I > >> would like to offer my condolences to the family of the student and let > >> my good friends at LKSC know that they are in my thoughts as they deal > >> with the aftermath of this accident. > >> > >> Mitch. > >> > >> > >> On 25/02/2007, at 9:05 PM, Ron Sanders wrote: > >> > >>> Even if you have only got five feet to run before the fence YOU MUST > >>> initiate a ground loop. > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Aus-soaring mailing list > >> Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > >> To check or change subscription details, visit: > >> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Aus-soaring mailing list > > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > > To check or change subscription details, visit: > > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Aus-soaring mailing list > > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > > To check or change subscription details, visit: > > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.4/703 - Release Date: 2/26/2007 > > 2:56 PM > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring _______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring -- No virus found in this incoming message. 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