Thanks for your kind words and sharing of your profound wisdom. Of
course, you are totally right once again!!!!

-- dims

On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 8:25 AM, Sanjiva Weerawarana
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have read your emails but I did not find an explanation of why you think
> we're a shell of what we used to be.
>
> While I of course realize that you have personal issues against me, this is
> a community discussion and you should try to keep the conversation about the
> community and not about your issues with me.
>
> If you don't want to explain your position that we've recently gone downhill
> that's fine, but telling me to get lost is not good enough and MOST
> CERTAINLY will not work. I've been around here since before any of this
> stuff existed and I sure ain't going nowhere .. not as long as I'm alive and
> kicking!
>
> Nice try, though.
>
> Sanjiva.
>
> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>
>> I've given concrete examples if you bothered to read my emails. At
>> this point, i'll say get lost!
>>
>> thanks,
>> dims
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 11:57 PM, Sanjiva Weerawarana
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>
>>> If you want to have a conversation about this topic then you should be
>>> ready
>>> to explain your statements. You have made bold statements about how
>>> things
>>> have gone down hill but yet you have no explanation except some attempt
>>> at a
>>> smart-ass response. Doesn't quite work.
>>>
>>> Sanjiva.
>>>
>>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the deep insight and pointing out my double standards.
>>>>
>>>> -- dims
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 1:25 PM, Sanjiva Weerawarana
>>>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Um, didn't the umbrella grow to this size under your watch??
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not opposed to a new TLP, but I don't understand on what basis
>>>>> you're
>>>>> claiming "we are now just a shell of what we used to be".
>>>>>
>>>>> Sanjiva.
>>>>>
>>>>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> related note - i once upon a time used to hold ws up as the best model
>>>>>> of working in open source. It's a tragic pity that we are now just a
>>>>>> shell of what we used to be. my 2 cents. YMMV.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- dims
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 6:11 AM, Davanum Srinivas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Samisa,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You have hit the nail on the head. People are who they are. Right now
>>>>>>> the umbrella is so vast that everyone is able to hide behind others.
>>>>>>> There is no accountability. When there is a smaller group of active
>>>>>>> people, There will be better accountability to each other and to the
>>>>>>> board and to our end users.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There are tactics that we can employ for example, we should make a
>>>>>>> new
>>>>>>> single release including all projects including XmlSchema, Rampart
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> Sandesha with Axis2. But still make extra releases of say Sandesha2
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>> necessary as well separately for Sandesha. You will ask, why can't we
>>>>>>> do this today and i'll say that these kind of tactics work better
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> a TLP like focus.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> thanks,
>>>>>>> dims
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 4:28 AM, Samisa Abeysinghe
>>>>>>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Davanum Srinivas wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Eran,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Clearly you did not read my previous emails. *PLEASE* read them and
>>>>>>>>> then we can continue.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> For example, I said "1. The proposal was to split Axis2+Anything
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2 into a separate TLP."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Also, i said this before, but repeat it again, The current status
>>>>>>>>> quo
>>>>>>>>> sucks. What we have is not working.
>>>>>>>>> - Really bad web sites
>>>>>>>>> - Really bad status of JIRA issues
>>>>>>>>> - Really bad track record of making releases periodically
>>>>>>>>> - There are many disjoint islands
>>>>>>>>> - The set of projects mentioned above is totally disjoint from
>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>> projects in WS PMC.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> How can a TLP solve all these? If people are who they are now, even
>>>>>>>> after
>>>>>>>> making Axis2 a TLP, the bad websites and bad release cycles will
>>>>>>>> remain.
>>>>>>>> On the other hand, if we cannot sync the releases of Axis2's sub
>>>>>>>> projects,
>>>>>>>> then irrespective of Axis2 being a TLP, it would turn out to be a
>>>>>>>> useless
>>>>>>>> project. Because one of Axis2's key strenghts is the set of sub
>>>>>>>> projects
>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>> has.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So IMHO, what is more important is to solve the above problems.
>>>>>>>> However,
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> doubt if TLP would be a solution for that.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Samisa...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What we have is broken, We are not the only ones in this situation,
>>>>>>>>> this has happened before at Apache with XML and Jakarta PMC's.
>>>>>>>>> Please
>>>>>>>>> go and look at the history and how the projects are faring now
>>>>>>>>> after
>>>>>>>>> becoming logical/smaller footprint PMCs. Please go ask them or ask
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> board@ or ask members if you don't believe, let's learn from their
>>>>>>>>> experiences.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *IF* people who are on the current projects that are not in the "
>>>>>>>>> Axis2+Anything that Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2"
>>>>>>>>> list
>>>>>>>>> want to tell us something, they should chime in and tell us what
>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>> think and we'll take a vote.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Right now it's just a few of us who are just repeating the same
>>>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>>>> over and over again without even reading what the other person is
>>>>>>>>> saying.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> thanks,
>>>>>>>>> dims
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 6:07 PM, Eran Chinthaka
>>>>>>>>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Davanum Srinivas
>>>>>>>>>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Chinthaka,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What are the problems that will be created? Please enumerate
>>>>>>>>>>> them.
>>>>>>>>>>> How
>>>>>>>>>>> is it being handled / smoothed over now and what would change
>>>>>>>>>>> specifically to make the cooperation not happen.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Problems :
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 1. Another member will have to waste time on doing PMC work
>>>>>>>>>> 2. We will lose the tight dependency between Axis2 and related
>>>>>>>>>> projects
>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>> Axiom, Neethi, Sandesha, etc.,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> There are numerous things like this that will happen.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If you can point your finger to specific scenarios. We can see if
>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>> can come up with specific solutions. (Say common svn area where
>>>>>>>>>>> both
>>>>>>>>>>> committers can have access).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Let me back up. What is broken in the current layout that mandates
>>>>>>>>>> us
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>>>>> for different TLPs?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Also, Don't mind me, i repeat my mantra for the n-th time again.
>>>>>>>>>>> Those
>>>>>>>>>>> who are actively working on a day to day basis should be taking
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> decisions. What we are doing is not working and i propose we try
>>>>>>>>>>> something new to see if it will work.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> My point is exactly this. Why do we waste time on going to fix
>>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>> which is not broken? Let's get back to work ;)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Samisa Abeysinghe
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://people.apache.org/~samisa/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
>>>>> Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation;
>>>>> http://www.opensource.lk/
>>>>> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
>>>>> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
>>>>> Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
>>>>>
>>>>> Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
>>> Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
>>> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
>>> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
>>> Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
>>>
>>> Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
> Founder & Director; Lanka Software Foundation; http://www.opensource.lk/
> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://www.wso2.com/
> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
> Visiting Lecturer; University of Moratuwa; http://www.cse.mrt.ac.lk/
>
> Blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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>
>



-- 
Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com

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