You must have misunderstood me. Paul
On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 2:01 PM, Davanum Srinivas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Serves me right to open my mouth. Sorry won't happen again. > > -- dims > > On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 6:54 AM, Paul Fremantle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Ah the glory days when you were Veep! >> >> Paul >> >> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 10:49 AM, Davanum Srinivas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> related note - i once upon a time used to hold ws up as the best model >>> of working in open source. It's a tragic pity that we are now just a >>> shell of what we used to be. my 2 cents. YMMV. >>> >>> -- dims >>> >>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 6:11 AM, Davanum Srinivas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>>> Samisa, >>>> >>>> You have hit the nail on the head. People are who they are. Right now >>>> the umbrella is so vast that everyone is able to hide behind others. >>>> There is no accountability. When there is a smaller group of active >>>> people, There will be better accountability to each other and to the >>>> board and to our end users. >>>> >>>> There are tactics that we can employ for example, we should make a new >>>> single release including all projects including XmlSchema, Rampart and >>>> Sandesha with Axis2. But still make extra releases of say Sandesha2 as >>>> necessary as well separately for Sandesha. You will ask, why can't we >>>> do this today and i'll say that these kind of tactics work better with >>>> a TLP like focus. >>>> >>>> thanks, >>>> dims >>>> >>>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 4:28 AM, Samisa Abeysinghe >>>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>>>> Davanum Srinivas wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Eran, >>>>>> >>>>>> Clearly you did not read my previous emails. *PLEASE* read them and >>>>>> then we can continue. >>>>>> >>>>>> For example, I said "1. The proposal was to split Axis2+Anything that >>>>>> Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2 into a separate TLP." >>>>>> >>>>>> Also, i said this before, but repeat it again, The current status quo >>>>>> sucks. What we have is not working. >>>>>> - Really bad web sites >>>>>> - Really bad status of JIRA issues >>>>>> - Really bad track record of making releases periodically >>>>>> - There are many disjoint islands >>>>>> - The set of projects mentioned above is totally disjoint from other >>>>>> projects in WS PMC. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> How can a TLP solve all these? If people are who they are now, even after >>>>> making Axis2 a TLP, the bad websites and bad release cycles will remain. >>>>> On the other hand, if we cannot sync the releases of Axis2's sub projects, >>>>> then irrespective of Axis2 being a TLP, it would turn out to be a useless >>>>> project. Because one of Axis2's key strenghts is the set of sub projects >>>>> it >>>>> has. >>>>> >>>>> So IMHO, what is more important is to solve the above problems. However, I >>>>> doubt if TLP would be a solution for that. >>>>> >>>>> Samisa... >>>>>> >>>>>> What we have is broken, We are not the only ones in this situation, >>>>>> this has happened before at Apache with XML and Jakarta PMC's. Please >>>>>> go and look at the history and how the projects are faring now after >>>>>> becoming logical/smaller footprint PMCs. Please go ask them or ask the >>>>>> board@ or ask members if you don't believe, let's learn from their >>>>>> experiences. >>>>>> >>>>>> *IF* people who are on the current projects that are not in the " >>>>>> Axis2+Anything that Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2" list >>>>>> want to tell us something, they should chime in and tell us what they >>>>>> think and we'll take a vote. >>>>>> >>>>>> Right now it's just a few of us who are just repeating the same things >>>>>> over and over again without even reading what the other person is >>>>>> saying. >>>>>> >>>>>> thanks, >>>>>> dims >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 6:07 PM, Eran Chinthaka >>>>>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Davanum Srinivas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Chinthaka, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What are the problems that will be created? Please enumerate them. How >>>>>>>> is it being handled / smoothed over now and what would change >>>>>>>> specifically to make the cooperation not happen. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Problems : >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 1. Another member will have to waste time on doing PMC work >>>>>>> 2. We will lose the tight dependency between Axis2 and related projects >>>>>>> like >>>>>>> Axiom, Neethi, Sandesha, etc., >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There are numerous things like this that will happen. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If you can point your finger to specific scenarios. We can see if we >>>>>>>> can come up with specific solutions. (Say common svn area where both >>>>>>>> committers can have access). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Let me back up. What is broken in the current layout that mandates us to >>>>>>> go >>>>>>> for different TLPs? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Also, Don't mind me, i repeat my mantra for the n-th time again. Those >>>>>>>> who are actively working on a day to day basis should be taking the >>>>>>>> decisions. What we are doing is not working and i propose we try >>>>>>>> something new to see if it will work. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> My point is exactly this. Why do we waste time on going to fix something >>>>>>> which is not broken? Let's get back to work ;) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Samisa Abeysinghe >>>>> >>>>> http://people.apache.org/~samisa/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Paul Fremantle >> Co-Founder and CTO, WSO2 >> Apache Synapse PMC Chair >> OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair >> >> blog: http://pzf.fremantle.org >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> "Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> > > > > -- > Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -- Paul Fremantle Co-Founder and CTO, WSO2 Apache Synapse PMC Chair OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair blog: http://pzf.fremantle.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
