The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Susan, I don't think you understood what I said.
On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 1:57 AM, Susan Maneck <sman...@gmail.com>
wrote:
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
I would definitely read that ayat spiritually. (And it is my
understanding that that is the typical Hanafi view at least).
I would too. The issue here was clearly profaning a holy site.
No. The verse in question is:
[Yusufali 9:28] O ye who believe! Truly the Pagans are unclean; so let
them not, after this year of theirs, approach the Sacred Mosque. And
if ye fear poverty, soon will Allah enrich you, if He wills, out of
His bounty, for Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.
And what I'm saying is that in the Hanafi view (note that the Hanafis
are the most populous interpretation of Sunni Islam... the Ottomans
and the Mughals were Hanafi), in the above verse, Pagans are being
described as unclean in a spiritual sense. NOT in a physical sense and
not in a sense that relates to laws about najas (ritual impurity) and
should not be used to justify a social system where non-Muslims have
cooties.
Personally Muslims do not offend me by not letting me go to Mecca
any
more than Zoroastrians offend me by not letting me into their Fire
Temples. However, when a Jew or a Zoroastrian can't go out when it is
raining for fear he will rub up against a Muslim and pollute them,
that is another question.
Sure. And that particular interpretation was limited to a particular
time and a particular place in a particular culture. And other Muslims
in most other places in most other times interpreted those rules
differently. So that suggest, instead of blaming all Muslims
everywhere you should focus on what factors in Safavid society led
them to set up a system which discriminated against people in those
particular ways.
(And do
you think that Bahais count as Idolaters?)
The question really is how do Muslims regard us? As you know, this
verse came to be applied to all non-Muslims even the Ahl-i Kitab.
The Saudis apply the law that way but there are definitely ulema which
don't interpret the Quran that way and 1) maintain the distinction
between Pagans and People of the Book (Ahl al-Kitab) and 2) would even
say it is halal for straight up Pagans to visit as long as they don't
stay.(this is mentioned in one of the links I provided elsewhere in
this thread)
So if you want to shake
hands I'm not going to treat you like najas. And if you serve some
good vegetarian food or seafood (which is what I eat for myself)
then
I'd be happy to partake.
As would most Muslims living in the US. It is only in predominantly
Muslim countries that we are likely to face discrimination.
In terms of the particular religious question under discussion (ritual
impurity) this is an interpretation limited primarily to Iran, not the
Muslim world as a whole.
Marriage is a tricky question. Officially,
neither Christianity nor Judaism really approve of intermarriage.
So
Islam is actually more inclusive by allowing marriage with People of
the Book. (And then the question is whether Bahais count under that
category)
As you know Christianity is pretty broad. Even Catholics are allowed
to intermarry now. It is mostly only evangelicals disapprove,
It isn't that the rules change. If you look up a Catechism of the
Catholic Church and look at what is says about marriage, marriage is
still a sacrament and so it can still only happen between baptized
Christians. And Catholics are a majority of Christians worldwide. In
any case, the Bible still says "Be not yoked with unbelievers".
Judaism is more
tolerant of women intermarrying than men. Islam is just the opposite.
Men can intermarry but not women.
I think you are mischaracterizing this. Not to marry non-Jews (of
either sex) is one of the 613 commandments of the Torah. And even if
it wasn't a violation of what is seen as a divine commandment, it is
seen as leading to the dissolution of the Jewish community and is
often described as finishing up where Hitler left off... Now,
according to Judaism a child who is born to a Jewish mother is Jewish.
So the point isn't that Judaism is tolerant of women intermarrying..
In either case, intermarriage is not ok. But if a women intermarries,
the Jewish family and the rabbis who disapprove can find cold comfort
in the thought "Oh at least the kids will be Jewish"
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