On Thu, Oct 28, 2021 at 2:38 PM Yoav Weiss <yoavwe...@chromium.org> wrote:
> > > On Friday, October 22, 2021 at 10:19:44 PM UTC+2 Fernando Serboncini wrote: > >> [coming from the other thread... :) ] >> >> +1 to what David said. It doesn't seem that returning dynamic-range: high >> right now would be useful. >> >> The spec could use some clarification: >> - clarify if those criterias need to be supported on different >> conditions: CSS, images, canvas, ... >> - clarify if the criterias need to be supported for both with/without >> alpha (afaik there may be implementation differences there, but I may be >> wrong here). >> - I wonder if the definitions of high contrast/peak brightness should >> match the industry definitions for HDR displays? I'm not an expert, but I >> know those exist. >> I think it's potentially okay to ignore those definitions, but I'd ask >> for a rationale here. >> >> I think it's a great thing to summarize hdr into a single media query, >> but the risk here would be to release a semantic that guarantees very >> little, and therefore is not useful in the long run. >> >> >> On Fri, Oct 22, 2021 at 10:04 AM David Baron <dba...@chromium.org> wrote: >> >>> This sounds like exactly the sort of case where an implementation should >>> report (dynamic-range: standard) and (video-dynamic-range: high). It >>> would be great to see the spec clarified to make it clearer what UA support >>> is expected for each, though. >>> >>> -David >>> >>> On Thu, Oct 21, 2021 at 7:03 PM Will Cassella <cas...@chromium.org> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Copying over from the other thread (trying to continue the discussion >>>> here): >>>> >>>> The spec <https://www.w3.org/TR/mediaqueries-5/#dynamic-range> requires >>>>> that "The combination of the User Agent and the output device fulfill all >>>>> of the following criteria" when describing what it means to be high >>>>> dynamic-range. Since Chromium doesn't support wide-gamut colors in CSS, >>>>> HTML, or Canvas >>>> >>>> > David - I'm likely missing something here, but I thought (based on this > thread > <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/epSTNPYkLIs/m/o5l7pZk1AwAJ>) > that we do have wide-gamut support in CSS, HTML and Canvas. > Are you saying we don't support this due to lack of color level 4 support? > Or something else? > That intent makes it sound like we have wide-gamut support for canvas (though others would be able to speak more authoritatively about it) but I don't think we do in HTML or CSS. (I also should have included images in my list, though I think if we have support with canvas then we probably do for images as well.).) > I also didn't interpret the spec as saying anything about gamut (but > rather about color depth <https://www.w3.org/TR/mediaqueries-5/#color>), > although it may be possible that wide gamuts and high color depth correlate > 1:1. Can you clarify if that's what you meant? > I should have been more precise about meeting the spec's requirements rather than just using the term "wide-gamut". You're correct that it's not 1:1, though I think that in practice an implementation is unlikely to meet the spec's requirements on color depth and contrast ratio without supporting colors beyond sRGB's gamut. (I also suspect we may not meet the color depth requirement in the spec, perhaps not for canvas or images as well.) -David > > >> , I think it's probably incorrect to report that (dynamic-range: high) is >>>>> true based only on the device, which is what it looks to me like the >>>>> current >>>>> code >>>>> <https://source.chromium.org/chromium/chromium/src/+/main:third_party/blink/renderer/core/css/media_query_evaluator.cc;l=351-378;drc=4d3cb20c1aebba55e54112531222c7434d29f3b0> >>>>> does. >>>>> Admittedly, the spec could probably use some clarification as to what it >>>>> means for the User Agent to fulfill the criteria for both the >>>>> dynamic-range and video-dynamic-range queries, but my understanding >>>>> of what the spec is trying to say is that Chrome probably shouldn't say >>>>> that (dynamic-range: high) is true until it supports wide-gamut >>>>> colors in at least some and maybe all of those contexts. >>>> >>>> >>>> I think you're right that the spec needs some clarification, since >>>> we're trying to incrementally enable adoption of HDR on the web the intent >>>> isn't to signal that HDR is supported by all APIs. We do already >>>> support HDR in some scenarios, such as the <video> element, so having these >>>> queries exist to let developers detect display capabilities is already >>>> useful. >>>> >>>> On Wed, Oct 20, 2021 at 11:27 PM Yoav Weiss <yoavwe...@chromium.org> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Oct 21, 2021 at 7:01 AM Will Cassella <cas...@chromium.org> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for the feedback! I've updated that section: >>>>>> >>>>>> Debuggability >>>>>> >>>>>> Styles with these media queries can be viewed and edited in the >>>>>> devtools frontend, albeit without proper highlighting. I've created pull >>>>>> requests on the relevant libraries used in the devtools frontend to >>>>>> enable >>>>>> this. https://github.com/stylelint/stylelint/pull/5613 >>>>>> https://github.com/codemirror/CodeMirror/pull/6803 >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wednesday, October 20, 2021 at 9:10:36 AM UTC-7 Mathias Bynens >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 20, 2021 at 5:44 PM Will Cassella <cas...@chromium.org> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Contact emailscas...@chromium.org, chcunning...@chromium.org, >>>>>>>> videostack-...@chromium.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Explainer >>>>>>>> Adds MediaQueries for detecting HDR vs HDR displays >>>>>>>> https://www.w3.org/TR/mediaqueries-5/#dynamic-range >>>>>>>> https://www.w3.org/TR/mediaqueries-5/#video-dynamic-range >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Specificationhttps://www.w3.org/TR/mediaqueries-5/#dynamic-range >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Summary >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Adds media queries to CSS which allow a page to detect the current >>>>>>>> display device’s support for HDR. This feature adds two new CSS media >>>>>>>> queries: 'dynamic-range' and 'video-dynamic-range', both of which may >>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>> one of 'standard' or 'high'. Chrome will resolve these queries >>>>>>>> according to >>>>>>>> the capabilities of the display device the browser window is currently >>>>>>>> positioned on, allowing pages to toggle CSS rules accordingly or >>>>>>>> respond in >>>>>>>> Javascript via 'window.matchMedia()'. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Blink componentBlink>CSS >>>>>>>> <https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/list?q=component:Blink%3ECSS> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Motivation >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> As HDR-supported displays become more common, web developers need >>>>>>>> ways to enable HDR content on their web pages without compromising the >>>>>>>> experience for users of non-HDR displays, or mixed-HDR multi-display >>>>>>>> setups. CSS already provides the 'media query' concept for toggling >>>>>>>> rules >>>>>>>> based on display device characteristics, and this feature extends that >>>>>>>> set >>>>>>>> of queries to enable detecting HDR support on the current display >>>>>>>> device. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Initial public proposal >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> TAG reviewNot Filed. This is an incremental change to CSS Media >>>>>>>> Queries, already adopted by CSS WG. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> I agree a TAG review is not needed for the `dynamic-range` MQ, as it's >>>>> shipped in Safari and adopted by the CSSWG. >>>>> The video variant however doesn't meet that criteria. Was the concept >>>>> of `video-*` MQs discussed with the TAG? Are there other `video-*` MQs >>>>> that >>>>> are already shipped? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> TAG review statusNot applicable >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Risks >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Interoperability and Compatibility >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Gecko: Worth prototyping ( >>>>>>>> https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/584) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> WebKit: Shipped/Shipping ( >>>>>>>> https://webkit.org/blog/10247/new-webkit-features-in-safari-13-1/) >>>>>>>> Partially implemented - `video-dynamic-range` not yet supported >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Web developers: Positive ( >>>>>>>> https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/4471#issuecomment-548085935) >>>>>>>> Feature designed with the help of Netflix. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Debuggability >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> No specific DevTools support >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Please follow https://goo.gle/devtools-checklist and elaborate on >>>>>>> this a little bit. Per the guide, we need to ensure DevTools supports >>>>>>> basic >>>>>>> editing of this new media query. It looks like this works out of the >>>>>>> box in >>>>>>> Canary. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Is this feature fully tested by web-platform-tests >>>>>>>> <https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/master/docs/testing/web_platform_tests.md> >>>>>>>> ?Yes >>>>>>>> https://wpt.fyi/results/css/mediaqueries/dynamic-range.html >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Flag nameCSSDynamicRangeMediaQueries >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Requires code in //chrome?False >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Tracking bughttps://crbug.com/1224711 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Estimated milestones97 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Link to entry on the Chrome Platform Status >>>>>>>> https://chromestatus.com/feature/5680926106320896 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This intent message was generated by Chrome Platform Status >>>>>>>> <https://www.chromestatus.com/>. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>> send an email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. >>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CA%2BF%3DP4hQtag7Ja_7HF4jRHbuC8h5-_0TzjoJvVEMHmrUeZYW9g%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CA%2BF%3DP4hQtag7Ja_7HF4jRHbuC8h5-_0TzjoJvVEMHmrUeZYW9g%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. >>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/6655cbcd-90a1-4b34-a332-5adeada4b53fn%40chromium.org >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/6655cbcd-90a1-4b34-a332-5adeada4b53fn%40chromium.org?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. >>> >> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAG0MU3gbBzJUttDWuWDRFWnP-w7%3DP4G7TrBPJiU%3DyizEH2%2Bz_Q%40mail.gmail.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAG0MU3gbBzJUttDWuWDRFWnP-w7%3DP4G7TrBPJiU%3DyizEH2%2Bz_Q%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "blink-dev" group. 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