Is the experiment rolled back on January 25th ? or it is still at 50%
stable for M 109?
On Thu, Jan 26, 2023 at 10:47 AM Alex Russell <slightly...@chromium.org>
wrote:
> It appears this change is causing breakage at scale, including for our
> partners.
>
> Given how this is going, I'd like to suggest the following course of
> action:
>
> - Turn down the Finch rollout to 0% immediately
> - Revert the change in 111
> - File an intent-to-deprecate here ASAP w/ whatever data on compat we
> can gather (as it looks like usecounters won't work) so we can discuss a
> new plan to land this
>
> We have options that might be more suitable (e.g., reverse OT), or maybe
> the change just needs devrel in wider channels + time to breathe. Either
> way, backing off of this rollout seems like the right thing to do. In
> future, web-visible WebRTC changes also need to come through the main Blink
> intents process. Let's start down that path now.
>
> Curious for other API OWNERs feedback, so cc-ing blink-api-owners-discuss@
> .
>
> Best,
>
> Alex
>
> On Wed, Jan 25, 2023 at 10:04 PM Henrik Boström <h...@google.com> wrote:
>
>> The track and stream removal experiment is at 50% Stable for M109. On
>> January 23rd it went from 10% to 50%. The intent is to ramp up to 100%.
>> Which experiment group you end up with (have or not have the deprecated
>> stats) are chosen with a dice roll every time the user restarts their
>> browser.
>>
>> In M111 (which is currently Canary) the removal is enabled-by-default so
>> in that version there is no dependency on getting finch configs pushed
>> anymore.
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 26, 2023 at 12:52 AM Sudheer Boynapally <
>> sudheerr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Was there any change on January 23rd corresponding to this? like rolling
>>> out this deprecation?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> On Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 2:57:16 PM UTC-8 Sudheer Boynapally
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> Is the deprecation of 'track' and 'stream' objects completed 100% on
>>>> all the versions of chrome v109 or any specific sub version of 109?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 5:56:04 AM UTC-8 Henrik Boström wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Jan 10, 2023 at 8:51 AM Yoav Weiss <yoav...@chromium.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> +Henrik Boström - was there an intent sent for this removal? Any
>>>>>> form of developer communication?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> There was developer communication dating as far back as July but I
>>>>> admit I had forgotten to send out a formal blink-dev intent to deprecate!
>>>>>
>>>>> - I should have done that.
>>>>>
>>>>> The getStats() API in question is not being deprecated, but the
>>>>> RTCStatsReport (an id-to-stats-object map) report will stop containing the
>>>>> stats object which were made obsolete in the spec several years ago due to
>>>>> the contents of these stats objects having been moved to other stats
>>>>> objects that are still being returned. Same values, different location. In
>>>>> other words, the report is being trimmed down by removing duplicate
>>>>> information. Stats processing code in an application is gated on stats
>>>>> type
>>>>> for knowing which metrics to look for on an individual stats object which
>>>>> should make this lower risk compared to other depracations. The motivation
>>>>> for this is performance optimizations (~40% report size reduction),
>>>>> technical debt reduction (-1400 LOC) and web compat ("track" does not
>>>>> exist in Firefox <https://webrtc-stats.callstats.io/verify/>).
>>>>>
>>>>> The communication channel used was WebRTC's official google group,
>>>>> discuss-webrtc <https://groups.google.com/g/discuss-webrtc>. History:
>>>>>
>>>>> - July 25, 2022 PSA
>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/discuss-webrtc/c/lfkFCY2CFco> announced
>>>>> the plan to deprecate at a milestone TBD. This was also the time where
>>>>> the
>>>>> "DEPRECATED_" prefix was added to the JavaScript-exposed stats object
>>>>> IDs,
>>>>> which made it into M106. The deprecation prefix is also visible in the
>>>>> chrome://webrtc-internals/ developer page when a page uses WebRTC.
>>>>> - There was another PSA on September 6, 2022
>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/discuss-webrtc/c/mmudYReualE> about
>>>>> other stats news with a reminder of the imminent stats deprecation.
>>>>> - The October 19, 2022 PSA
>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/discuss-webrtc/c/R7Mcux9RK6g> announced
>>>>> "track" stats being removed at 50% Canary.
>>>>> - The follow-up October 27, 2022 PSA
>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/discuss-webrtc/c/9c8ZjberEcI> announced
>>>>> it would also be removed at 50% Beta (where M109 Beta was released on
>>>>> December 1st). This PSA also clarifies that "The goal is to continue
>>>>> ramping it up on Stable when M109 is released".
>>>>> - Lastly we have yesterday's PSA
>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/discuss-webrtc/c/Bxrxr8gw08Y> announcing
>>>>> that the removal was advanced to 1% Stable which this conversation is a
>>>>> response to.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 9, 2023 at 9:42 PM Alex Russell <sligh...@chromium.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks for adding blink-dev, Philipp. CC-ing the API OWNERs as this
>>>>>>> seems related to a pattern of breaking changes without Blink intents
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> we've been informed of by customers.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Do I understand correctly that this deprecation is being managed via
>>>>>>> Finch for 109 Stable?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, as to minimize risk of breakage the deprecation is managed via a
>>>>> Finch flag, which is currently 1% Stable + 50% Canary/Beta.
>>>>> To my knowledge, no issues have been reported since the rollout
>>>>> started in Canary in November, 2022 or "DEPRECATED_" prefix was added in
>>>>> July, 2022.
>>>>> This, combined with the fact that apps usually gate on type, is why I
>>>>> thought it would be safe to gently roll out further to Stable.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Alex
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Jan 10, 2023 at 12:34 AM 'Aaron Boushley' via blink-dev <
>>>>> blin...@chromium.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Can you help me understand exactly which objects are being removed
>>>>>> here? We rely on `RTCPeerConnection.getStats()` although we pass in a
>>>>>> stream selector. We then iterate over the returned stats reports looking
>>>>>> for ones containing the values we need.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The selector (be it an RTCRtpSender, RTCRtpReceiver or
>>>>> MediaStreamTrack) continues to work, it's just that the report no longer
>>>>> contains the removed stats objects.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is this a removal of the stats objects that have the fixed ID of
>>>>>> "track" and "stream"?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It is the removal of the stats objects where .type == "track" or .type
>>>>> == "stream".
>>>>> In the spec this refers to dictionaries RTCMediaStreamTrackStats
>>>>> <https://w3c.github.io/webrtc-stats/#dom-rtcmediastreamtrackstats> and
>>>>> RTCMediaStreamStats
>>>>> <https://w3c.github.io/webrtc-stats/#dom-rtcmediastreamstats> which
>>>>> are part of the "Obsolete" section of the spec. See RTCStatsType
>>>>> <https://w3c.github.io/webrtc-stats/#rtcstatstype-str*> for complete
>>>>> list of stats object types.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regarding the track stats dictionary, the same metrics are still
>>>>> available, but you have to look at the non-deprecated locations:
>>>>> RTCOutboundRtpStreamStats
>>>>> <https://w3c.github.io/webrtc-stats/#outboundrtpstats-dict*> and
>>>>> RTCInboundRtpStreamStats
>>>>> <https://w3c.github.io/webrtc-stats/#dom-rtcinboundrtpstreamstats>
>>>>> dictionaries
>>>>> instead (type == "outbound-rtp" and type == "inbound-rtp"). See also the
>>>>> type "media-source" referenced from outbound-rtp.mediaSourceId.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Is there any more documentation I can look at beyond the 2 sentences
>>>>>> above?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The spec <https://w3c.github.io/webrtc-stats/> as well as the
>>>>> implementation
>>>>> <https://source.chromium.org/chromium/chromium/src/+/main:third_party/webrtc/api/stats/rtcstats_objects.h>
>>>>> are
>>>>> good resources in general.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Aaron
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 9, 2023 at 11:30 AM 'Philipp Hancke' via blink-dev <
>>>>>>> blin...@chromium.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Henrik,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> while I understand that this has been ongoing for a while in Canary
>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/discuss-webrtc/c/R7Mcux9RK6g/m/KG8qe6AEBgAJ>
>>>>>>>> and Beta
>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/discuss-webrtc/c/9c8ZjberEcI/m/wbdQr77VBQAJ>
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> a while without anyone raising issues,
>>>>>>>> the timeline "tomorrow" (with ramp-up) comes as a surprise, in
>>>>>>>> particular considering practices like code freezes over the holidays.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Can you explain why you think you don't need an intent to deprecate
>>>>>>>> on blink-dev (cc'd)?
>>>>>>>> (I agree they should go away but don't see a need for such an
>>>>>>>> aggressive timeline)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Am Mo., 9. Jan. 2023 um 10:40 Uhr schrieb Henrik Boström <
>>>>>>>> hb...@webrtc.org>:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> With the Stable release of M109 tomorrow, the deprecated "track"
>>>>>>>>> and "stream" stats objects returned by RTCPeerConnection.getStats()
>>>>>>>>> will no
>>>>>>>>> longer be available.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This is unshipped at 1% Stable, but it will soon ramp up further
>>>>>>>>> with the goal of 100% unshipped in M109.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ---
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>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CADxkKiJ-vkiyVTH%2BsSNOjv67zx0p7qLra1ePdGJS3JW3GTzfKQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
--
Thanks,
Sudheer
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