Hi Henrik, Just want to confirm if this is rolled-back today at 9am PST ?
On Sat, Jan 28, 2023 at 1:59 AM Henrik Boström <h...@google.com> wrote: > Hi Anna, yes the experiment is being rolled back to 0% Stable (it's still > 50% on Canary/Beta though). > The rollback has already been submitted, but unfortunately we must wait > for the next config push. I'm told this happens on *Monday, 9AM Pacific > Time*. Users will need to restart their browser to get the config. > > In preparation for the next rollout, I've filed the much needed intent to > deprecate here: > https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/NZVXsJQ7tV8. > Please provide input on the proposed plans. > On Saturday, January 28, 2023 at 12:45:00 AM UTC+1 Anna Vasilko wrote: > >> Hi Henrik, >> Just wanted to double check that the latest plan is to revert the >> experiment, correct? Asking because there was somewhat different comment on >> the PR here >> <https://github.com/twilio/twilio-video.js/pull/1970#issuecomment-1404596109> >> . >> At Twilio we really hope the experiment can be reverted asap given that >> it is breaking for our customers and their end users in the wild. The >> adoption of our new sdk release (with the above PR change) will take long >> time for most of the customers as they need to 1) learn about the issue 2) >> pick-up the new sdk version 3) roll out their applications with the new sdk >> version. For some customers it takes months. >> Basically the only way to really stop the breaking impact is to stop the >> experiment and give some notice and time to adopt the changes. >> >> I have to acknowledge it took surprisingly long time for us to discover >> this breaking change and act on it. Holidays probably played a role here. >> But we will do a retrospective internally to understand the reasons better >> and to catch such issues sooner in the future. >> >> On Friday, January 27, 2023 at 12:57:38 AM UTC-8 Henrik Boström wrote: >> >>> I'll roll it back and file an intent to deprecate thread. It was a big >>> mistake that I forgot to do that in the first place, and it's unfortunate >>> that we have to roll this back. But I take having reached 50% Stable and >>> only knowing for sure about Twilio as a positive sign (if this was very >>> widespread we would have heard about it earlier than we did). Still it >>> seems like Finch is a problem for Selenium test environments in that it's >>> possible to run test code for several months without noticing a feature is >>> on. That's a bit sad. >>> >>> On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 8:46:19 PM UTC+1 Sudheer Boynapally >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Is the experiment rolled back on January 25th ? or it is still at 50% >>>> stable for M 109? >>>> >>>> On Thu, Jan 26, 2023 at 10:47 AM Alex Russell <sligh...@chromium.org> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> It appears this change is causing breakage at scale, including for our >>>>> partners. >>>>> >>>>> Given how this is going, I'd like to suggest the following course of >>>>> action: >>>>> >>>>> - Turn down the Finch rollout to 0% immediately >>>>> - Revert the change in 111 >>>>> - File an intent-to-deprecate here ASAP w/ whatever data on compat >>>>> we can gather (as it looks like usecounters won't work) so we can >>>>> discuss a >>>>> new plan to land this >>>>> >>>>> We have options that might be more suitable (e.g., reverse OT), or >>>>> maybe the change just needs devrel in wider channels + time to breathe. >>>>> Either way, backing off of this rollout seems like the right thing to do. >>>>> In future, web-visible WebRTC changes also need to come through the main >>>>> Blink intents process. Let's start down that path now. >>>>> >>>>> Curious for other API OWNERs feedback, so cc-ing >>>>> blink-api-owners-discuss@. >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> >>>>> Alex >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Jan 25, 2023 at 10:04 PM Henrik Boström <hb...@google.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> The track and stream removal experiment is at 50% Stable for M109. On >>>>>> January 23rd it went from 10% to 50%. The intent is to ramp up to 100%. >>>>>> Which experiment group you end up with (have or not have the >>>>>> deprecated stats) are chosen with a dice roll every time the user >>>>>> restarts >>>>>> their browser. >>>>>> >>>>>> In M111 (which is currently Canary) the removal is enabled-by-default >>>>>> so in that version there is no dependency on getting finch configs pushed >>>>>> anymore. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Jan 26, 2023 at 12:52 AM Sudheer Boynapally < >>>>>> sudhe...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Was there any change on January 23rd corresponding to this? like >>>>>>> rolling out this deprecation? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> On Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 2:57:16 PM UTC-8 Sudheer >>>>>>> Boynapally wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Is the deprecation of 'track' and 'stream' objects completed 100% >>>>>>>> on all the versions of chrome v109 or any specific sub version of 109? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 5:56:04 AM UTC-8 Henrik Boström >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jan 10, 2023 at 8:51 AM Yoav Weiss <yoav...@chromium.org> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> +Henrik Boström - was there an intent sent for this removal? Any >>>>>>>>>> form of developer communication? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> There was developer communication dating as far back as July but I >>>>>>>>> admit I had forgotten to send out a formal blink-dev intent to >>>>>>>>> deprecate! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> - I should have done that. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The getStats() API in question is not being deprecated, but the >>>>>>>>> RTCStatsReport (an id-to-stats-object map) report will stop >>>>>>>>> containing the >>>>>>>>> stats object which were made obsolete in the spec several years ago >>>>>>>>> due to >>>>>>>>> the contents of these stats objects having been moved to other stats >>>>>>>>> objects that are still being returned. Same values, different >>>>>>>>> location. In >>>>>>>>> other words, the report is being trimmed down by removing duplicate >>>>>>>>> information. Stats processing code in an application is gated on >>>>>>>>> stats type >>>>>>>>> for knowing which metrics to look for on an individual stats object >>>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>>> should make this lower risk compared to other depracations. The >>>>>>>>> motivation >>>>>>>>> for this is performance optimizations (~40% report size reduction), >>>>>>>>> technical debt reduction (-1400 LOC) and web compat ("track" does >>>>>>>>> not exist in Firefox <https://webrtc-stats.callstats.io/verify/>). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The communication channel used was WebRTC's official google group, >>>>>>>>> discuss-webrtc <https://groups.google.com/g/discuss-webrtc>. >>>>>>>>> History: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> - July 25, 2022 PSA >>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/discuss-webrtc/c/lfkFCY2CFco> >>>>>>>>> announced >>>>>>>>> the plan to deprecate at a milestone TBD. This was also the time >>>>>>>>> where the >>>>>>>>> "DEPRECATED_" prefix was added to the JavaScript-exposed stats >>>>>>>>> object IDs, >>>>>>>>> which made it into M106. The deprecation prefix is also visible in >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> chrome://webrtc-internals/ developer page when a page uses WebRTC. >>>>>>>>> - There was another PSA on September 6, 2022 >>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/discuss-webrtc/c/mmudYReualE> about >>>>>>>>> other stats news with a reminder of the imminent stats deprecation. >>>>>>>>> - The October 19, 2022 PSA >>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/discuss-webrtc/c/R7Mcux9RK6g> >>>>>>>>> announced >>>>>>>>> "track" stats being removed at 50% Canary. >>>>>>>>> - The follow-up October 27, 2022 PSA >>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/discuss-webrtc/c/9c8ZjberEcI> >>>>>>>>> announced >>>>>>>>> it would also be removed at 50% Beta (where M109 Beta was released >>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>> December 1st). This PSA also clarifies that "The goal is to >>>>>>>>> continue >>>>>>>>> ramping it up on Stable when M109 is released". >>>>>>>>> - Lastly we have yesterday's PSA >>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/discuss-webrtc/c/Bxrxr8gw08Y> >>>>>>>>> announcing >>>>>>>>> that the removal was advanced to 1% Stable which this conversation >>>>>>>>> is a >>>>>>>>> response to. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 9, 2023 at 9:42 PM Alex Russell < >>>>>>>>>> sligh...@chromium.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for adding blink-dev, Philipp. CC-ing the API OWNERs as >>>>>>>>>>> this seems related to a pattern of breaking changes without Blink >>>>>>>>>>> intents >>>>>>>>>>> that we've been informed of by customers. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Do I understand correctly that this deprecation is being managed >>>>>>>>>>> via Finch for 109 Stable? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Yes, as to minimize risk of breakage the deprecation is managed >>>>>>>>> via a Finch flag, which is currently 1% Stable + 50% Canary/Beta. >>>>>>>>> To my knowledge, no issues have been reported since the rollout >>>>>>>>> started in Canary in November, 2022 or "DEPRECATED_" prefix was added >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> July, 2022. >>>>>>>>> This, combined with the fact that apps usually gate on type, is >>>>>>>>> why I thought it would be safe to gently roll out further to Stable. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Alex >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jan 10, 2023 at 12:34 AM 'Aaron Boushley' via blink-dev < >>>>>>>>> blin...@chromium.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Can you help me understand exactly which objects are being >>>>>>>>>> removed here? We rely on `RTCPeerConnection.getStats()` although we >>>>>>>>>> pass in >>>>>>>>>> a stream selector. We then iterate over the returned stats reports >>>>>>>>>> looking >>>>>>>>>> for ones containing the values we need. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The selector (be it an RTCRtpSender, RTCRtpReceiver or >>>>>>>>> MediaStreamTrack) continues to work, it's just that the report no >>>>>>>>> longer >>>>>>>>> contains the removed stats objects. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Is this a removal of the stats objects that have the fixed ID of >>>>>>>>>> "track" and "stream"? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It is the removal of the stats objects where .type == "track" or >>>>>>>>> .type == "stream". >>>>>>>>> In the spec this refers to dictionaries RTCMediaStreamTrackStats >>>>>>>>> <https://w3c.github.io/webrtc-stats/#dom-rtcmediastreamtrackstats> and >>>>>>>>> RTCMediaStreamStats >>>>>>>>> <https://w3c.github.io/webrtc-stats/#dom-rtcmediastreamstats> which >>>>>>>>> are part of the "Obsolete" section of the spec. See RTCStatsType >>>>>>>>> <https://w3c.github.io/webrtc-stats/#rtcstatstype-str*> for >>>>>>>>> complete list of stats object types. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Regarding the track stats dictionary, the same metrics are still >>>>>>>>> available, but you have to look at the non-deprecated locations: >>>>>>>>> RTCOutboundRtpStreamStats >>>>>>>>> <https://w3c.github.io/webrtc-stats/#outboundrtpstats-dict*> and >>>>>>>>> RTCInboundRtpStreamStats >>>>>>>>> <https://w3c.github.io/webrtc-stats/#dom-rtcinboundrtpstreamstats> >>>>>>>>> dictionaries >>>>>>>>> instead (type == "outbound-rtp" and type == "inbound-rtp"). See also >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> type "media-source" referenced from outbound-rtp.mediaSourceId. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Is there any more documentation I can look at beyond the 2 >>>>>>>>>> sentences above? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The spec <https://w3c.github.io/webrtc-stats/> as well as the >>>>>>>>> implementation >>>>>>>>> <https://source.chromium.org/chromium/chromium/src/+/main:third_party/webrtc/api/stats/rtcstats_objects.h> >>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>> good resources in general. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Aaron >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 9, 2023 at 11:30 AM 'Philipp Hancke' via blink-dev < >>>>>>>>>>> blin...@chromium.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Henrik, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> while I understand that this has been ongoing for a while in >>>>>>>>>>>> Canary >>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/discuss-webrtc/c/R7Mcux9RK6g/m/KG8qe6AEBgAJ> >>>>>>>>>>>> and Beta >>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/discuss-webrtc/c/9c8ZjberEcI/m/wbdQr77VBQAJ> >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> a while without anyone raising issues, >>>>>>>>>>>> the timeline "tomorrow" (with ramp-up) comes as a surprise, in >>>>>>>>>>>> particular considering practices like code freezes over the >>>>>>>>>>>> holidays. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Can you explain why you think you don't need an intent to >>>>>>>>>>>> deprecate on blink-dev (cc'd)? >>>>>>>>>>>> (I agree they should go away but don't see a need for such an >>>>>>>>>>>> aggressive timeline) >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Am Mo., 9. Jan. 2023 um 10:40 Uhr schrieb Henrik Boström < >>>>>>>>>>>> hb...@webrtc.org>: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> With the Stable release of M109 tomorrow, the deprecated >>>>>>>>>>>>> "track" and "stream" stats objects returned by >>>>>>>>>>>>> RTCPeerConnection.getStats() >>>>>>>>>>>>> will no longer be available. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> This is unshipped at 1% Stable, but it will soon ramp up >>>>>>>>>>>>> further with the goal of 100% unshipped in M109. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "discuss-webrtc" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to discuss-webrt...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/discuss-webrtc/0ebcadca-6d66-4f7c-b7e5-d2ac707a6e84n%40googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/discuss-webrtc/0ebcadca-6d66-4f7c-b7e5-d2ac707a6e84n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to blink-dev+...@chromium.org. >>>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CADxkKiJ-vkiyVTH%2BsSNOjv67zx0p7qLra1ePdGJS3JW3GTzfKQ%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CADxkKiJ-vkiyVTH%2BsSNOjv67zx0p7qLra1ePdGJS3JW3GTzfKQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "blink-api-owners" group. >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to blink-api-owne...@chromium.org. >>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-api-owners/CAA44PQjegbaaorsT_r-iNtUAg2Gxa5f6WohHAaLeGw2tmBW%2BwA%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-api-owners/CAA44PQjegbaaorsT_r-iNtUAg2Gxa5f6WohHAaLeGw2tmBW%2BwA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Sudheer >>>> >>> -- Thanks, Sudheer -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "blink-dev" group. 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