From: "Dan Minette" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Probably meant Kaddish. Kiddush is a blessing over wine. Kaddish is a prayer said in praise of God. There are a number of variations, including the Mourner's Kaddish, which is said when someone dies. It's supposed to be said morning and evening for a full year after a parent dies. Here's the kicker: In order to say Kaddish, you need a minyan. This means a gathering of 10 men. (Depending on the group, sometimes women are counted towards a minyan -- but this is rarely done in conservative or orthodox groups.) And minyans can be hard to organize at someone's house if you don't formally belong to a synagogue. So... it's not unusual for religious Jews to ask strangers to participate (as long as they were Bar Mitzvah'ed they're considered acceptable.)
Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: EU thought crimes
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 13:17:42 -0600
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Gabriel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 12:32 PM
Subject: Re: EU thought crimes
> >From: "Dan Minette" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: Re: EU thought crimes
> >Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 12:29:05 -0600
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Erik Reuter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 11:52 AM
> >Subject: Re: EU thought crimes
> >
> >
> > > On Wed, Feb 19, 2003 at 05:51:29PM -0000, Andrew Crystall wrote:
> > > > On 19 Feb 2003 at 17:20, Richard Baker wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Andy said:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Holocaust denial SHOULD be a crime.
> > > > >
> > > > > Why should it? Should denying the horrors of the Ukrainian
> > > > > terror-famine be a crime? Or the mass killings by the Khmer
Rouge?
> >How
> > > > > about the genocide of the Armenians? Or the Amritsar massacre?
Where
> > > > > do you want to draw a line and why?
> > > >
> > > > I'm Jewish and have VERY strong views on the subject. So I'm afraid
> > > > you won't get anywhere with me on that topic.
> > >
> > > Religion is a mind-killer. Denying THAT SHOULD be a crime.
> >
> >Ah, many/most Jewish people are atheists.
> >
>
> I'd love to see statistics backing up that statement. :)
> Jon
I don't have worldwide statistics, but I've heard that statement from so
many of my Jewish friends, backed up with considerable data. For example,
one friend of mine, who is an atheist but goes to Temple as a social
concession to his wife, tells a story about how he was grabbed on the
street in Israel to help read Kiddush (sp). He was told that there were so
few non-Orthodox religious people in Israel, that Americans had to be
grabbed.
I've had the exact opposite experience regarding religious/atheist Jews. Only very rarely have I met atheists who were originally Jewish. Most were originally either Catholic or Protestant. In fact, almost every Jewish person I've ever met practiced their religion in one way or another.
If I were you, I wouldn't personally assume that many/most Jews are atheists unless I had more than anecdotal evidence to back it up. I don't mean this unkindly. I just think the blanket statement was inaccurate.
I would also like to note that just because some Jews in Israel aren't orthodox, that doesn't make them atheists. AFAIK, most Jewish people in Israel are 'observant' to some degree, more importantly, they identify themselves as Jews and not as atheists. I could be wrong about this, but I highly doubt it.
BTW, a couple of interesting facts: Israeli schools are divided into 3 categories: Orthodox religious, Secular and Muslim. The secular schools also teach religious and Jewish history curriculum. There are neighborhoods that are divided by religious sect as well -- there are orthodox neighborhoods and secular neighborhoods. And apparently mezuzzahs and Jewish stars can be found pretty much everywhere you go as well.
I disagree with this statement. It is more correct to say that being Jewish is not *only* a religious/theological experience. It is most certainly much more than just a cultural experience for someone who follows the religion.I'll try to find a worldwide survey, but the point of my statement is that being Jewish is not primarily a religious/theological experience.
Jon
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