Jan Coffey wrote:
>
> --- Dan Minette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jan Coffey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 7:15 PM
> > Subject: Re: Most Dangerous States
> >
> >
> > >
> > > --- Dan Minette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I realize that folks talk about these folks being monsters and needing
> > to
> > > > seriously punish them. But, if the numbers used by people working with
> > > > victims and survivors are right, roughly 1 in 20 men (maybe 1 in 25)
> > are
> > > > pedophiles.
> > >
> > > I would have to strongly disagree with this. This is sexist feminist
> > crap!
> >
> > Right, and my wife wasn't really a victim of sexual assault, its just that
> > she's a feminist liar. Both women and men have been surveyed and about 1
> > in 4 women have been the victim of a sexual assult, and about 1 in 7 men.
> >
> > Now, this is slightly old data, and I wouldn't be shocked if its down to 1
> > in 5 women or 1 in 10 men. But a casual statistical survey of my friends
> > indicates that the official numbers look close.
> >
> > If there is anything sexist, it is the denial of the frequency with which
> > women become perps. When Teri was working groups for Parents Annomous, she
> > was the only one who asked if the mother did anything.
> >
> >
> > That's not all children, so not all count as pedophile.
> >
> > > Even if you run off and get stats for this you will have to show what the
> > > definition is.
> >
> > The definition is pretty plain, men who are sexually attracted to children.
> > I can get the exact definition, but I know that attraction to youth 13 and
> > over doesn't count as pedophile.
> >
> >
> >
> > > Do 1 in 20 hetero males find 17 year old females attractive? I would
> > argue
> > > the number is much higher than just 1 in 20.
> >
> > Doesn't count.
> >
> >
> > > What about 18 year old males who find 14 year old females attractive?
> >
> > Nope, its grown men and children.
> >
> > > If we are talking about post pubecent males who find pre-pubesent females
> > > attractive, I seriously doubt the numbers would be high enough to make
> > enven
> > > a percentage.
> >
> > Well, from my perspective, you won't accept anything that doesn't fit your
> > presuppositions.
> >
> >
> > > If we further restrict it to only those who act on it then we would have
> > even
> > > lower numbers.
> >
> > But, the reality is that a significant fraction of men and women endure the
> > shame of being the victim of sexual abuse. You'll be surprised at how many
> > people are willing to talk about it only when it is made safe for them.
> >
> > > It is certain that pedifiles exist and they certainly have serious
> > problems
> > > that society needs to find a solution for. But to sugest that so many men
> > are
> > > like that is sexist IMO.
> >
> > Why? With your attitude, I'd be shocked if people would be likely to admit
> > that they were victims to you. No hard feelings, but that type of denial is
> > a good portion of why victims of sexual assault tend to keep their mouths
> > shut.
> >
> > Dan M.
>
> You don't know me, or my friends, my experiences, or obviously my sympathies
> to those who have endured this type of crulty and evil.
>
> I seem to have struck an emotional chord with you and I appologize if that
> has made you angry at me, or hurt.
>
> I do realize that there are many who are abused and attacked. I am not
> suggesting otherwise. I am, however, suggesting that the stats are scued to
> make the situation (as far as male perpitrators) seem more widespread than it
> is.
>
> Not that it is not a problem mind you.
>
> There is also a distinct lack of data in these numbers about what part of
> society the perpitrators come from.
>
> Besides, if the numbers are so greate, wouldn't it seem wise for possible
> victems to carry a leathal weapon?
The problem with your argument here, Jan, is that Dan was quoting stats
about pedophiles, people who sexually assult children under a certain
age. Say, 12 or 13? (Dan? What's the cutoff?)
Are you going to hand an 11-year-old girl a gun and instruct her to
carry it and blow away *only* someone who molests her? I'm not going to
hand an 11-year-old, boy or girl, a gun except under strict adult
supervision. Someone that age certainly won't be able to get a
concealed carry permit! And in the personal accounts of child
molestation or attempted child molestation that I have heard from people
I know, the *oldest* first-time victim (or near-victim, in this case,
actually) was 11 years old. One was younger than 5 when a long-time
pattern of abuse began. This is anecdotal, I know, so take it with
however much salt you deem necessary. (The other thing is that a lot of
the abuse is perpetrated by family members, and you're not going to hand
your own kid a gun with which to blow *you* away, now, are you? Or
Grandpa? Or Uncle Bob?)
The thing is, by the time a child can be trusted with the weapon to
defend herself or himself, that child is out of the range of interest
for true pedophiles. So your weapon suggestion isn't realistic for
*that* particular problem. For a woman in her 20s who regularly has to
be in more dangerous places, if she can handle a weapon and can carry it
legally, I'm not going to argue with her about it -- it's her choice.
Same with pepper spray, which was the self-defense weapon of choice on
my hall in my dorm in college.
As far as the data on what part of society child molesters come from --
there's no one part. It happens at every economic level, and, as far as
I know, every part of society you can name. It may be that there are a
few sorts of communities where it doesn't happen, but those are
exceptions, not the rule.
Julia
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