--- Julia Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Jan Coffey wrote:
> >
> > --- Dan Minette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Jan Coffey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 7:15 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Most Dangerous States
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > --- Dan Minette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I realize that folks talk about these folks being monsters and
> needing
> > > to
> > > > > seriously punish them. But, if the numbers used by people working
> with
> > > > > victims and survivors are right, roughly 1 in 20 men (maybe 1 in
> 25)
> > > are
> > > > > pedophiles.
> > > >
> > > > I would have to strongly disagree with this. This is sexist feminist
> > > crap!
> > >
> > > Right, and my wife wasn't really a victim of sexual assault, its just
> that
> > > she's a feminist liar. Both women and men have been surveyed and about
> 1
> > > in 4 women have been the victim of a sexual assult, and about 1 in 7
> men.
> > >
> > > Now, this is slightly old data, and I wouldn't be shocked if its down
> to 1
> > > in 5 women or 1 in 10 men. But a casual statistical survey of my
> friends
> > > indicates that the official numbers look close.
> > >
> > > If there is anything sexist, it is the denial of the frequency with
> which
> > > women become perps. When Teri was working groups for Parents Annomous,
> she
> > > was the only one who asked if the mother did anything.
> > >
> > >
> > > That's not all children, so not all count as pedophile.
> > >
> > > > Even if you run off and get stats for this you will have to show what
> the
> > > > definition is.
> > >
> > > The definition is pretty plain, men who are sexually attracted to
> children.
> > > I can get the exact definition, but I know that attraction to youth 13
> and
> > > over doesn't count as pedophile.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Do 1 in 20 hetero males find 17 year old females attractive? I would
> > > argue
> > > > the number is much higher than just 1 in 20.
> > >
> > > Doesn't count.
> > >
> > >
> > > > What about 18 year old males who find 14 year old females attractive?
> > >
> > > Nope, its grown men and children.
> > >
> > > > If we are talking about post pubecent males who find pre-pubesent
> females
> > > > attractive, I seriously doubt the numbers would be high enough to
> make
> > > enven
> > > > a percentage.
> > >
> > > Well, from my perspective, you won't accept anything that doesn't fit
> your
> > > presuppositions.
> > >
> > >
> > > > If we further restrict it to only those who act on it then we would
> have
> > > even
> > > > lower numbers.
> > >
> > > But, the reality is that a significant fraction of men and women endure
> the
> > > shame of being the victim of sexual abuse. You'll be surprised at how
> many
> > > people are willing to talk about it only when it is made safe for them.
> > >
> > > > It is certain that pedifiles exist and they certainly have serious
> > > problems
> > > > that society needs to find a solution for. But to sugest that so many
> men
> > > are
> > > > like that is sexist IMO.
> > >
> > > Why? With your attitude, I'd be shocked if people would be likely to
> admit
> > > that they were victims to you. No hard feelings, but that type of
> denial is
> > > a good portion of why victims of sexual assault tend to keep their
> mouths
> > > shut.
> > >
> > > Dan M.
> >
> > You don't know me, or my friends, my experiences, or obviously my
> sympathies
> > to those who have endured this type of crulty and evil.
> >
> > I seem to have struck an emotional chord with you and I appologize if
> that
> > has made you angry at me, or hurt.
> >
> > I do realize that there are many who are abused and attacked. I am not
> > suggesting otherwise. I am, however, suggesting that the stats are scued
> to
> > make the situation (as far as male perpitrators) seem more widespread
> than it
> > is.
> >
> > Not that it is not a problem mind you.
> >
> > There is also a distinct lack of data in these numbers about what part of
> > society the perpitrators come from.
> >
> > Besides, if the numbers are so greate, wouldn't it seem wise for possible
> > victems to carry a leathal weapon?
>
> The problem with your argument here, Jan, is that Dan was quoting stats
> about pedophiles, people who sexually assult children under a certain
> age. Say, 12 or 13? (Dan? What's the cutoff?)
Sorry , it semed to me at that point we had moved away from the child
molester area and into the sexual assult area.
> Are you going to hand an 11-year-old girl a gun and instruct her to
> carry it and blow away *only* someone who molests her? I'm not going to
> hand an 11-year-old, boy or girl, a gun except under strict adult
> supervision. Someone that age certainly won't be able to get a
> concealed carry permit! And in the personal accounts of child
> molestation or attempted child molestation that I have heard from people
> I know, the *oldest* first-time victim (or near-victim, in this case,
> actually) was 11 years old. One was younger than 5 when a long-time
> pattern of abuse began. This is anecdotal, I know, so take it with
> however much salt you deem necessary. (The other thing is that a lot of
> the abuse is perpetrated by family members, and you're not going to hand
> your own kid a gun with which to blow *you* away, now, are you? Or
> Grandpa? Or Uncle Bob?)
Bob's your uncle?
<snip -Bla -Bla --didn't mean that anyway>
> As far as the data on what part of society child molesters come from --
> there's no one part. It happens at every economic level, and, as far as
> I know, every part of society you can name. It may be that there are a
> few sorts of communities where it doesn't happen, but those are
> exceptions, not the rule.
This is really supprising to me. It seems that every person I have known (who
was moested as a child, and was molested by an adult--still think even the
bble on stats in this area is including "playing doctor") was molested by
their teacher, their preist, or their step parent. I am sure Dan can find us
supporting statistics for that. Maybe we need to get rid of teachers,
preists, and step parents since they lead to sexualy molested children.
Or if we find stats on "someone they know" maybe we shouldn't allow children
to "know" any adults.
hardy hare.
But seriously, isn't it usualy someone assumed to be intrusted with the
childs care, or a trusted associate of such a person? What is this saying
about society?
This is exactly why I don't want to bring another being into this world, and
exactly why I feel that I need a weapon with leathal force to protect me and
mine from the evil that is our fellow humans.
You can go about your life thinking that people are generaly good but the
arguemtns I have heard here on this topic all point to the antithisis. All
the while with the notion that it is the not evil people, but rather eveil
-things- which ~cause~ the problem.
If people were good, you could have loaded guns growing (...from high
branches where children couldn't reash them..) on every tree on every street
and it wouldn't matter. So if the people are the problem, don't -you- need to
be able to protect -yourself-? All of these stats that Dan keeps spouting -
even if the corolation Dan suggests could actualy be shown - mean nothing but
that I am correct, I ~do~ need the right to carry. I do need some way to
protect myself.
=====
_________________________________________________
Jan William Coffey
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