Andreas Hauser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > wmoran wrote @ Sun, 24 Apr 2005 10:21:57 -0400: > > [...] > > > The only one i can imagine making it through, is someone that is so bad > > > at what he does, that a) he has the time and b) is dull enough no to > > > notice > > > it's shortcomings. > > > > You speak of ridicule, but they you accuse me of being either stupid or > > having too much free time on my hands. > > > > Perhaps it's possible that some people care enough about a project like > > this to struggle through the early difficulties that any project has. > > There is also the posibility that i have a limited imagination > and i have been accused of that before.
Alright. I shouldn't have done that. I will drop the insulting, condensending tone, as it's not particularly helpful. [...] > There should be a distinction between use of the machine. > Desktop, Server, Special Purpose Server. > > And one might differenciate between System Images and Live Systems. > > But since setups differ very much it might even be necessary to first > find out which kinds of setups are in use and make different surveys > fit. > > The roles should also include special area admins (Database admins, > webmasters etc. for most questions summarized as "Special Pupose Admins") While these seem like excellent suggestions, they assume some things that (to my knowledge) the group has not yet decided: i.e. what kind of certs will be created. Most of your suggestions seem to indicate that you expect there will be seperate "tracks" (i.e. a "database admin" tract, and a "web master" tract, etc) but the end of the survey asks about what kind of certs you think are good, and that is because the group has not yet decided. Yes, the survey is flawed in many ways, and lacks many things, but some of them are necessary flaws and omissions until more information can be obtained. And using a survey to obtain that information _is_ the community interaction (or, at least one method of it, this mailing list being another). I would particularly be interested in what HR and other people involved in hiring think are good types of certs to provide. > Like DES said, "once at install" is a missing date (also noted in > my survey comment) I agree with this, but I was not involved with the creation of the survey, and such an answer may not work with the type of data that they are attempting to collect. > There is no need to ask for each /etc file if it shall be allowed to be > modified. Asking about more abstract tasks would cut down the questions > a lot. True, but that would not give as much fine-grained information. Surveys are difficult. The perfect survey would be a _huge_ list of questions, each with a text box that would allow the surveyee to enter their full opinion. Unfortunately, those types of surveys are tough to convince people to take, and they're extremely time-consuming to extract data from. Finding the sweet spot between a survey short enough to be manageable, and one long/detailed enough to provide all the information necessary is _VERY_ difficult, and big-name advertising firms get paid millions to generation super-high-quality surveys and analyze them. I'm not involved enough with the group yet to know exactly what resources it has available, but I'm guessing there's not enough cash in the treasury to employ The Pipitone Group to do the survey. > > There's no doubt in my mind that your suggestions will be a key factor in > > improving the second iteration of the survey. > > I have no doubt you can beat me in corporate speach hidden ridicule > but let me try: > There's no doubt in my mind that your behaviour will be a key factor in > improving the acceptance of your organization in the community. Well, considering the tone that I initiated this email with, it wouldn't be unexpected for you to assume that i was being sarcastic, or (as you phrase it) using "corporate speech hidden ridicule". There was, however, none of that intended. The simple fact is that a group of BSD advocates feel very strongly that certification would be helpful to the BSD community. They decided to take action on that belief. It's a tough undertaking. You have every right to be frustrated and upset about how things are going. All I'm saying is that it's a natural part of the process. This group has only been in existence for a few months, and _developing_ a community is likely to be the most difficult part of the whole thing. Heck, I've been wanting to see this happen for _years_ and only just found out about this group a few days ago (although it's been in existence for months). Heck, if you think this is frustrating now, just wait until it's time to reconcile the differing requests of developers, sysadmins, educators, and HR departments! -- Bill Moran Potential Technologies http://www.potentialtech.com _______________________________________________ BSDCert mailing list [email protected] http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/bsdcert
