Judy, I'm kind of new to the sail trimming techniques of the C27, but I liked your scenario. I'm learning alot right here on sail trim theory and can't wait to try twisting off the top of my main.
But I was thinking about your scenario, and without all the theory behind why I do it, that's the way I learned to sailed. When beating windward I'm pointed as high as I can without luffing sails. When a gust hits I ease the boat windward as it wants to do and take advantage of pointing up a bit. Then when the gust passes I let it fall off a bit, and I do all that while attmpting to not loose any speed and keeping the sails full and not luffing. So, its a constant dance with the wind and the tiller. The smaller boats I learned to sailed on in the San Francisco area did not have alot of options for sail trimming like travlers and I only used a boom vang to keep the main flat when going downwind. Going to windward was just a matter of being close hauled and setting the jib not too tight and not too loose to create a nice draft between both sails then sailing with the tiller. After reading here I'm anxious to play around a bit more with sail trimming. Thanks, Brad Noah's Ark, Hull #2271 San Diego, CA ----- Original Message ----- From: Judith Blumhorst, DC To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 11:53 AM Subject: Re: catalina27-talk: Yesterdays sail -- 2 fingers on tiller David, You've got all the arrowheads on the vector going in the right direction now. Must be good coffee :^) This is how I experience the sequence of events: I'm beating upwind, powered up but not overpowered. The boat is moving fast 6-7 knots, and heeling 15-20 degrees. Her bow is staying down in the water well. Then a gust hits and the boat starts to heel. In the first half of the sequence, the true wind velocity increases by 2-5 kts, and the apparent wind shifts 10-20 degrees aft, more towards the beam. If I keep her doggedly on course and don't do something, (ease the sails or point up), the boat will be overpowered and heel excessively. To keep her moving and on an even keel when that gust hits, I prefer to let her turn a little into the wind. I keep the tiller almost steady by using a little more strength as she heels and let her find her way upwind, if possible. She might speed up a little, but not not significantly if she was already moving fast before being overpowered slightly by the gust. I might have to pinch a little during the gust, but not too much if I want to keep her moving. If I really pinch, she'll slow down and get headed. (If I have to pinch often, I'm overpowered and it's tiime to take a reef somewhere) In the second half of the sequence, the gust goes away and the wind drops by 2-5 kts. The apparent wind moves forward again. Most of the wind direction shift is caused by decrease in true wind velocity. If she's trimmed and canvassed properly, I can ease the effort on the tiller and she'll slowly fall off slightly, keeping her sails full. She really won't slow down much. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The old timers called it sailing "full and by" -- letting the boat find her way upwind. It happens to be fast too, because the airflow stays laminated to the sails. I don't "shift gears" alot by changing the entry shape of the sails every few seconds. Particularly when it's gusty or there's lots of chop, I put a lot of twist in the sails and leave it there. I'm lazy. The way I experience it, rounded entry sails are good when the apparent wind shifts alot; they are much more forgiving if you occassionally don't steer well. rounded entries don't stall as easily as "fine entry" sails. Of course, as Phil points out, sails with fine entries drive the boat faster on the top end. However, I'm lazy, like I said, and I make lots of mistakes from moment to moment. I'd like to think I sail fast because I set my boat up to be forgiving of my frequent lapses in attention and because I make fewer egregious errors. Fair winds, Judy B ----- Original Message ---- From: David Shaddock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 10:16:45 AM Subject: RE: catalina27-talk: Yesterdays sail -- 2 fingers on tiller My thanks to Judy, by the way, after she very politely pointed out my vector error in a private message-- I played with the vector diagrams again because MY tiller-hand knows the same thing hers does. I figured out that when you’re on a beat and the wind increases, for a moment the apparent wind does shift toward the beam and you can pinch up and sail higher, but then as our boat gains speed, the apparent wind shifts back toward the bow and that’s when you have to bear away. I think I catch the feel of the second part of that better than I sense the first part, so in my mind, I picture the apparent wind shifting toward the bow and (inconveniently) leave out the initial beamward shift. I knew she’d be rightJ. But I’m still baffled by Tom’s issue, even after this recent clarification. Tom, if you’re pulling hard on the tiller to keep from rounding up into the wind, how does the tiller get into the water at 20 degrees heel? Oh—out of curiosity, what are the relative ages of your 135 jib and your mainsail? Dave Shaddock From: [email protected] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 9:08 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: catalina27-talk: Yesterdays sail -- 2 fingers on tiller All ... More info ......... 1. I don't think it's sail trim. On the wind in pretty steady conditions such that we can discount gusts for sake of discussion, at a measured 15 degrees of heel; a relatively new 135 up, led, and sheeted, and the boat pointing correctly, such that all three sets of telltails are laying flat or occasionally ticking to windward (top first); and a main with a boom positioned on the centerline and the sheet tensioned such that the telltails on the battons are all flying straight out (or the top one falling off occasionally), I have to use arm strength, not "two fingers", to keep the boat from turning into the wind. I couldn't tell you how many degrees of rudder I have to apply, but my point is that it is taking constant pressure to hold the boat on course, which is NOT how some of you have described a properly tuned rig at 15 degrees of heel. 2. Each fall, I have to take the tension off the rig when it comes out of the water (lift requires me to remove the forestay), so I have to retune each spring. And I like the tension off the rig in the winter anyway. Per recommendations on this list when I first got the boat, I started by positioning the mast such that the main halyard intersected the boom about six inches back from the mast, and then tensioning the rig from there. In an effort to reduce my weather helm, I've been moving the mast top forward an inch at a time until, as I said before, the mast is standing straight up ... the main halyard intersects the boom right at the base of the mast. Thus I have moved the center of effort pretty far forward. The problem is somewhat better but not gone. So ................. when I read a respected sailer, Judy, talks about two fingers on San Francisco Bay, and I read on this board and others about boats sailing merrily along being gently guided by their captains, I get frustrated. Yes, I can deal with the problem by dumping the travellor or otherwise triming to move the center of effort forward, but it seems to me that I ought to be able to tune the boat such that in 10-12 with a 135/main she is properly balanced without doing so. Maybe I'm just being unrealistic, but I don't think so. I've trimed and helmed other boats in such conditions that have had an almost neutral helm. Thus, my question to Judy. Hope all that helps. Tom "Joe McCary" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent by: [email protected] 07/25/2008 12:12 AM Please respond to [email protected] To <[email protected]> cc Subject RE: catalina27-talk: Yesterdays sail -- 2 fingers on tiller Good point! We need to know as the wind builds do you need to push the tiller up wind or downwind to keep her tracking? If you release the tiller which direction does the boat go, head into the wind or turn to run off the wind? The correction for helm is mast rake and a little goes a long way on a well designed boat. Did you make any changes to the mast position or has it always been the same and the handling as wind increases the same? Joe McCary Aeolus II, West River, MD [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Shaddock …But you say you’re dragging a tiller through the water, which seems to me you’re fighting a lee helm and turning the rudder to keep from bearing off, not a weather helm—and if that’s the case, and your mast is vertical, you’ve moved your center of effort forward instead of aft where you want it.
