Yes, but I can hire a CCIE, dump him after six months, he can bounce to another company and I have a year to replace him... technically, one CCIE could be credited for 3 companies...
J On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 9:50 PM, Michael Ciarfello<[email protected]> wrote: > You are correct and that is probably still going on. But take this alternate > perspective: > > Discount is the bigest reason, but the gap between the certification levels > is not as great as it used to be. OIP program is the great protector of > lesser certified companies from always getting beaten out by higher level > partners. There are also VIP rebates, etc that cloud the profitability issue > for higher certified partners even more. So those two programs (and others) > help the lesser certified partner compete and be profitable. > > There is also the recently to be more stringent requirement of the CCIE MUST > work for the company. No more long distance CCIEs or buying numbers, etc. > The partner will lose their certification and the CCIE will lose their > certification also. Heard of an example where a company with office on one > side of the world had a CCIE associated with them that lived on the other > side of the world. Heck of a commute. > > ________________________________________ > From: [email protected] > [[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jonathan Charles > [[email protected]] > Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 3:02 AM > To: Nara Shikamaru > Cc: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] Passed, thanks! > > One tiny problem. > > Cisco has placed requirements on their partners that without CCIEs, > you can't attain any real status. > > So, companies will hire the useless CCIEs. > > And a lot of people believe it to be a meal ticket, get your CCIE, > never want for work again.... > > > Jonathan > > On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 6:16 PM, Nara Shikamaru<[email protected]> wrote: >> No, he's right, it doesn't make someone an expert. No method of training >> can prepare people for the real world like . . . the real world! Experience >> is king. I work with an Engineer at Cisco who is, in fact, a CCIE . . . in >> R&S. His specialty today is in IPCC Enterprise, he's not CCIE Voice and I >> can't think of anyone I would rather speak with when it comes to call >> centers. It's clear when we talk that he not only has a strong command of >> voice applications and call centers but he also understands the appropriate >> application of the technology when it comes to organizations. He gets it >> because he's done it. No education or training in the world can beat >> experience, Ivy League schools can't teach a person to be an effective >> professional, high schools and colleges can't prepare people for >> everything. Education and training is the best start to any worthwhile >> endeavor. But that's all it is; a start. >> >> On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 8:03 PM, Wayne Lawson <[email protected]> >> wrote: >>> >>> Erwan - you don't think the CCIE is the "expert" of networking.....are you >>> nuts?....Do you not understand the IT industry?.... >>> >>> Regards, >>> Wayne A. Lawson II - CCIE #5244 >>> Founder & President - IPexpert, Inc. >>> Mailto: [email protected] >>> Mobile: +1.810.334.1564 >>> :: Message sent from iPhone. >>> On Sep 3, 2009, at 10:45 PM, Erwan Erwan <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Jon, >>> >>> Congrats, definitely I understand your feeling , when u have to passed >>> with hard work compare to those that cheat the lab. >>> >>> Just my opinion looking at the situation in my company on what we >>> see about CCIE >>> >>> I do not really agree if CCIE cert is the expert/doctorate in networking, >>> cause it more to config and troubleshoot for the cisco equipments. And i >>> think that is the reason Cisco create it beside the marketing behind it :) >>> >>> And I meet lots out there with 20 years exp , even without CCNA , got the >>> skills and knowledge beyond CCIEs, like understanding the protocol and work >>> on multiplaform for voice. Sometimes those guy can solve the issue better >>> than TAC cause they hv more comprehensive knowledge. >>> >>> Just opinion :) >>> >>> Thks, >>> >>> >>> --- On Thu, 9/3/09, Jonathan Charles <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> From: Jonathan Charles <[email protected]> >>> Subject: Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] Passed, thanks! >>> To: "jeremy co" <[email protected]> >>> Cc: [email protected] >>> Date: Thursday, September 3, 2009, 2:29 PM >>> >>> The problem is that there are some integrators that actually do a >>> technical interview... Some companies understand the CCIE is >>> meaningless and ignore the certification. >>> >>> I do not. >>> >>> If you have a CCIE, then I need to CCIE levels of skill. >>> >>> >>> >>> Jonathan >>> >>> On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 12:44 AM, jeremy co<[email protected]> wrote: >>> > No offence, >>> > But IMO you don't need 5 years or whatever years of experience to get >>> > CCIE. >>> > for being comfortable with lots of issues in the field I agree with you >>> > though. CCIE is just an exam, neither proving you have field experience >>> > nor >>> > knowledge of networking needed for real world project it proves that you >>> > understand certain aspect of technology front and back that falls within >>> > CCIE exam blueprint.yet acknowledge your troubleshooting skills on those >>> > areas. >>> > if sb ever went through AAR setup and troubleshooting could answer your >>> > question, However cheater's would't be able to answer that. >>> > Anyway , I encourage people to start their CCIE journey even if you have >>> > zero experience, buy equipment, get hands on , read Docs and I call it >>> > experience. you don't have to be in the field to know in and out of >>> > working >>> > with cisco equipments you already have in your home lab. >>> > >>> > my 2 cents. >>> > >>> > Jeremy >>> > On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 3:10 PM, Jonathan Charles <[email protected]> >>> > wrote: >>> >> >>> >> Just some quick things I wanted to add.... >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> First, take this lab as soon as you can... DO NOT WAIT. >>> >> >>> >> When Cisco adds DNS, AD, OCS, SIP Providers, T.38 faxing to CUC, VPIM >>> >> and a crap load of techs they can't test for yet (missing underlying >>> >> infrastructure right now...), this test will become nearly impossible >>> >> >>> >> <moral high horse> >>> >> >>> >> Second, I have been doing Cisco VoIP for 5 years now. I started doing >>> >> day 2 support for SBC back in 2004. >>> >> >>> >> I have the CCNP, CCDP, CCSP and I was one of the first few dozen >>> >> people to get the CCVP in May of 2005. >>> >> >>> >> I have been working on CCM since it was called CCM... I consider >>> >> myself an expert at dial peers, telco issues, Unity, CallManager (and >>> >> CUCM) IPCC, Routing and Switching. >>> >> >>> >> I took the R&S Lab back in 2003 (failed it and gave up and went to do >>> >> voip...)... >>> >> >>> >> All of that being said, I want everyone to realize that the CCIE is >>> >> NOT a beginner's certification. >>> >> >>> >> I mean to say, that if you have less than 5 years of experience in >>> >> voice, you should expect 5 years of pain and suffering before passing. >>> >> >>> >> The people out there braindumping the exam and passing it with no >>> >> skills will never get through a tech interview worth a damn. And they >>> >> certainly won't be worth a crap on a customer site. >>> >> >>> >> I have a tech interview that will annihilate any posers... I do not >>> >> ask factoid questions, "What plugs into an FXS?" for example, all of >>> >> my questions end with the line, 'walk me through your troubleshooting >>> >> procedure...' >>> >> >>> >> And yes, I have had CCIE R&S's try to get past me who didn't know why >>> >> OSPF wouldn't come up when a DS3 was terminating a bunch of DS1s. And >>> >> I have had CCIE Voice's try to get past me who couldn't answer this >>> >> question...: >>> >> >>> >> "You have a remote office, Automatic Alternate Routing is implemented >>> >> correctly. During a WAN outage, calls are not rerouting to the PSTN, >>> >> walk me through your troubleshooting procedure." >>> >> >>> >> Yes, the question is mean, yes, the question is unfair and YES, a >>> >> customer once asked me why calls didn't reroute during a WAN outage. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> The next time someone tells you that you should cheat on the exam, ask >>> >> them the above question, see if they can answer it, see if they could >>> >> handle the normal onslaught of customer questions when you have to >>> >> explain the limitations and features of Cisco products. >>> >> >>> >> </moral highhorse> >>> >> >>> >> Party on. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Jonathan >>> >> >>> >> On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 11:46 PM, Jonathan Charles<[email protected]> >>> >> wrote: >>> >> > OK, took it on Tuesday and passed version 3.0 in RTP... my number is >>> >> > 25309 >>> >> > >>> >> > So, that is done, one less thing. >>> >> > >>> >> > Here is how I did it.... >>> >> > >>> >> > A lot of people post things about how they studied and studied, yeah >>> >> > I >>> >> > did that. >>> >> > >>> >> > I did two things. >>> >> > >>> >> > I built an exact rack of the lab, here is what it was: >>> >> > >>> >> > Three DL380 G3s, CUCM Pub, Sub and UCCX 7. >>> >> > CUPS and CUC ran on VMWare... >>> >> > >>> >> > HQ had a Cisco 3750-24PS and a 2821 with a VWIC-1MFT-T1 and a WIC-1T >>> >> > with Three PVDM sticks: a 32, a 48 and a 64 (don't ask...) >>> >> > >>> >> > SiteB (BR1 for IPExpert labs) was a 2811 with a VWIC-1MFT-T1, a >>> >> > HWIC-4ESW and a WIC-1T with two PVDM sticks and 16 and a 48 >>> >> > >>> >> > SiteC (BR2) was a 2821 with a VWIC-2MFT-E1, an NME-CUE, a >>> >> > -HWIC-9-ESW-D and two PVDM 64s >>> >> > >>> >> > Phones were four 7965s, one 7971, two 7961s. >>> >> > >>> >> > For the PSTN Router, I used a 3750 with an NM-4T, NM-32A/S, a >>> >> > VWIC-2MFT-T1 and VWIC-2MFT-E1 and an AIM-VOICE-30, the PSTN phone was >>> >> > a 7960. >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > I then got the IPExpert stuff, watched the videos, and read thru the >>> >> > labs. >>> >> > >>> >> > I used the audio bootcamp to write a book for the lab (this was for >>> >> > V2), it was 390 pages long with screen shots on how to do everything >>> >> > in CallManager 4.1, Unity 4.0 and IPCC 4.0, with detailed step by >>> >> > step >>> >> > guides to do everything on a Cisco router for voice. >>> >> > >>> >> > I then updated it for v3 by adding a section for CUPS, CUC and >>> >> > updating every page for the v3 test. There are sceeenshots for the >>> >> > CUE, for CCME, for everything... I even walk you through script >>> >> > creation... >>> >> > >>> >> > I then read the book over and over, used it as a reference guide for >>> >> > my labs, configured everything I could think of, if it wasn't in the >>> >> > book, it got added... I had the thing at work with me everywhere I >>> >> > went, if I ran into something scary at work, it went in the book.... >>> >> > I >>> >> > re-read it over and over, checking for errors, proofing it, fact >>> >> > checking every word... adding jokes... >>> >> > >>> >> > It is now 760 pages and two volumes (it was crashing Word)... >>> >> > >>> >> > Just to preempt this... It is not for sale, it is not for sharing... >>> >> > it contains craploads of copyrighted info from IPexpert, Internetwork >>> >> > Expert, CCBootcamp and Cisco (stolen info from Networkers slides) >>> >> > basically just a tome of data. >>> >> > >>> >> > Here is why it is not for sale or for sharing. >>> >> > >>> >> > To get the effect I got, you need to write this book yourself, I >>> >> > recommend that everyone do so.... use something to start, I recommend >>> >> > NOT using a written source (you will just copy and paste)... the >>> >> > audio >>> >> > bootcamps are perfect for this... you can use it as a framework for >>> >> > notes and then flesh out your sections.... >>> >> > >>> >> > The CCIE is considered the doctorate in internetworking... I wrote my >>> >> > thesis and defended it yesterday. >>> >> > >>> >> > Good luck. >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > Jonathan >>> >> > >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> For more information regarding industry leading CCIE Lab training, >>> >> please >>> >> visit www.ipexpert.com >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> For more information regarding industry leading CCIE Lab training, please >>> visit www.ipexpert.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> For more information regarding industry leading CCIE Lab training, please >>> visit www.ipexpert.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> For more information regarding industry leading CCIE Lab training, please >>> visit www.ipexpert.com >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> -Shikamaru >> >> _______________________________________________ >> For more information regarding industry leading CCIE Lab training, please >> visit www.ipexpert.com >> >> > _______________________________________________ > For more information regarding industry leading CCIE Lab training, please > visit www.ipexpert.com > _______________________________________________ For more information regarding industry leading CCIE Lab training, please visit www.ipexpert.com
