It's an important point, I can respect and like a person, and at the same time not respect their vocation.
I have a very good friend who is closely involved with developing military communications systems, I'm not happy with the fact that he does that and I couldn't do it myself (when I was self employed I wrote an ethical policy for myself and stuck to it), but we meet up a few times a year and have a great time over a few drinks. I might well try to persuade him to get a "proper" job if the subject came up, but I don't demonise him just for what I see as a bad decision. People join the forces for all sorts of reasons, but I stand by the fact that if you do you agree to kill on command - it's sort of in the job description. But that's not an insult, it's just a very sad fact of life which I wish was different. On 12/16/05, Tony <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > i agree with you jerry, except i cannot write him off. > i have a hard time writing off anyone, unless you fuck me over. > my father is a light col. in the united states army, flew in two > tours of the good ole Vietnam debacle. If Wayne met him, Wayne > wouldnt hate him. Wayne would probably actually be fine with > him, as my dad had no desire to kill a soul. He was a kid from > a broken home, that needed a job, so he joined. The the Vietnam > debacle came along and he performed his job, whatever that might > have been, and did it well, with pride, and to help whatever they > were fighting for. Still not sure, never really learned about that war. > > Anyway, its REALLY easy to say things on a list, without thinking > and hitting send too quick. I'm sure Wayne would never say anything > like that to ANY of you, if he met you at a CF Conference or something > it just wouldnt happen. When you put a face to a posting, or a face > to an email address, its quite a bit different and im sure unless your > The Rock, you wouldnt talk the same way to their face as you would > in an email. > > whatever, id rather listen to wayne than sam :) sorry sammy. > > tw > > > On 12/15/05, Jerry Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Let's look at what Wayne said. > > > > He does not repect anyone who has ever joined the military, and > > considers them all fools and killers. > > > > We have a number of ex military people on this list. Who he just > > insulted purposely. > > My father falls into that list, and I take offense to that. > > I have personal friends and aquaintences that have lost lives, body > > parts, children, jobs, health, sanity and marriages from their > > sacrifice over the last few years. > > > > So I have written Wayne off. He is not worth my time. And I personally > > think he is a dick for saying those things to these people. > > > > The attitude that Wayne holds is not uncommon in the UK. It is > > prevalent in France. It exists in Canada. It is less popular here at > > home than at any time in my lifetime. > > > > So odds are, he was going to be from the UK. We don't have many French > > citizens on this mailing list. Those Canadian citizens we have would > > have been more polite to the existing military veterans. US citz would > > have been reluctant to voice that sentiment (do you see why?) > > > > Who said anything about France (Who are all cheese-eating, bad > > cigarette smoking cowards. This week, anyway). > > > > As far as the British military goes, who even questioned their > > testosterone levels? Or that of the French military for that matter. > > Or of the Iraqi military. > > > > Kevin was DEFENDING the British military guys from Wayne's attack. > > > > You should be yelling at Wayne for calling them foolish killers. > > > > Wayne did not say that he was against war and we should not have gone > > into Iraq. Had he said that, I would have wholeheartedly agreed. He > > did not say he was against the politicians who got us into the war, or > > against the fanatical religious leaders and dictators that gave > > justification, or the military leaders who have made bad decisions and > > cost lives. > > > > He said he was against the dogfaces, the men and women in uniform. > > > > Bad, bad Wayne. > > > > On 12/15/05, Dana <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > ok, here is what it said to me, and you tell me I am not wrong based on > > > what > > > we've seen out of Kevin so far. > > > > > > There has been a media-fed and administration-generated sort of collective > > > insanity in the US in which those foreign countries who do not fall into > > > lockstep with US policy are made out to be cowards or stupid or > > > ungrateful. > > > Canada and France both come to mind in this context. > > > > > > Kevin as one of our handiest and best examples of ignorant acceptance of > > > administration pablum has confused the British with the French. > > > Personally I > > > think the French were quite wise to stay out of the current mess, and that > > > while they are hardly the most effective fighters they are far from > > > cowardly. But that is neither here nor there. > > > > > > We are talking about the Brits, who, hello, are our allies in this war, > > > who > > > have take a great deal of flack to be our allies, and who, like it or not, > > > are some of the bravest soldiers out there and always have been. I am > > > really > > > ashamed that someone I know would have been ignorant enough to a) confuse > > > the two and b) say such a thing. All them thar uro-peens is alike. Please > > > note that though I say this as the holder of a British passport I am of > > > French and Irish descent and we know damn well the Brits can fight. As you > > > people should too. They are right there with you in Iraq. What the hell do > > > you think that the bombs in London were about?? > > > > > > That such an effort should be trivialized by such a remark really > > > embarrasses me. > > > > > > That being said, I can conceive of a necessary war so I don't know that I > > > agree with Wayne, but it is certainly a respectable point of view and > > > Kevin's reaction to it may have single-handedly notched up the perception > > > of > > > this country as a nest of benighted fools. > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Purchase Studio MX from House of Fusion, a Macromedia Authorized Affiliate and support the CF community. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=50 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:5:188446 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/5 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:5 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.5 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
