> What? First, I'm not a religious person. I do think there > is something that > created things and put things in motion, I think there is > evolution, > however, I think there is something that sets humans apart > from every other > living thing.
> According to the modern ethics of some Muslims killing \ > people that > disrespect Mohamed is right. > To claim my argument invalid because it mentions god is > also saying our > declaration of independence are based on an invalid > argument. It states > there are Laws of Nature and of Nature's God, and that > certain rights are > un-alienable. And that Governments are created by men to > secure these. It is invalid as proof of a universal yardstick for the right/wrong-ness of human behavior. I said "faith / religion" to be inclusive of the possiblity that you might not adhere to a specific religion, but the fact that you believe in "something that created things and put them in motioni" and "something that sets humans apart from every other living thing" indicates that you do have a personal faith. As to the declaration of independance, it's not my declaration. :) It was the declaration of the representatives of the first 13 states explaining their agreed upon reasons for seceding Brittish rule, and I will personally allow some of it's suppositions to be incorrect. :) While it does speak of God and of inalienable rights at the same time, there are no laws drafted in it, and if there were and I felt those laws to be flawed in some way, then I would speak against what I believe to be their flaws. If I were alive at the time, I don't think even being an atheist (for the sake of argument) that I would have objected to the drafters using God in that document, just like I don't lambast Christians for praying that I'll come back to the fold. It's silly but I can allow them to be silly. I probably would have lambasted them for invoking God while drafting laws. Governments are created by men. So are morals. I think the US is the first example of those two things being combined isn't it? Anybody else on the list want to chime in here? I believe all previous governments came into being through force without ever declaring their sovereignty. The US drafted its declaration as I understand it because Brittish Parliament had demanded it. The fact that they claimed that a government exists to secure rights which are provided by God doesn't make it so, nor does it change the fact that governments are created by men or that they created a government. They invoked God while declaring their moral reasons for secession -- it doesn't make those morals any more divine. Just for clarification: I'm not an atheist. I am Unitarian. Some Unitarians are atheists. >> -----Original Message----- >> From: S. Isaac Dealey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> See... that's part of the problem. If you can't provide a >> reason >> without invoking God, then the argument is invalid. God >> can not be >> proven, and certainly _your_ God can not be proven to be >> real in >> comparison to for instance the muslim God. And yet, the >> muslim God >> disagrees with yours. The muslim God demands that people >> who >> disrespect Mohamed die. According to the muslim God, >> killing people >> who disrespect Mohamed is RIGHT, and it's just as right >> to their God >> as it is wrong according to your God for anyone to be >> killed for any >> reason. >> >> Morality has been invented by men. If you want to claim >> that there is >> a higher power that's created everything and has declared >> a universal >> right and wrong, be my guest. But that's not morality, >> that's the law >> of your faith or religion. s. isaac dealey 434.293.6201 new epoch : isn't it time for a change? add features without fixtures with the onTap open source framework http://www.fusiontap.com http://coldfusion.sys-con.com/author/4806Dealey.htm ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:5:200067 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/5 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:5 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
