"Just pick an argument and stick with it Jerry." Hard to advance an argument without some change. I even admitted that you were right. Insurance companies would not go bankrupt. This alone resulted in some changes to my arguments.
The main problem is I started out too big in scope and I have had to work down to a smaller scope. Sometimes I believe others can see the cause and effect that is obvious. Of course, this isn't the case so I have to back track and explain. "Is it socialism?" Not yet. Just the path to it. "Is it health insurance companies being driven bankrupt? " If forced to offer health care, insurance companies would go bankrupt. If allowed to drop health care altogether, then they will be able to stay profitable. Just out of curiosity, how could a health care insurance company stay in business if forced to accept patients with preexisting conditions who can drop the service immediately after using it? Would this cause premiums for the "regular" users to go up? Would the "regular" users stay with the company if their premiums started skyrocketing? Would there be a tipping point where the company just said "Fuck it!, We're not doing this shit anymore?" "Is it...well, what the hell is this argument? Companies that can stay profitable will be profitable? " Us stupid people aren't too eloquent. If it takes dropping health care in order to remain profitable, insurance companies will do so. This is already happening. I hope I made that understandable. It doesn't seem to difficult and I thought I said it previously but it didn't seem to get through. "I guess I can't argue with that because it is a tautology." Nope. "When your argument changes with every email you might want to stop, take a step back and think about where you're coming from." My overall premise hasn't changed a bit. "Psst...July 2008 was before the healthcare debate. There was no trojan horse because...there was no horse at the time!" Yep. It was 2008. And you are also right about the Trojan horse. It isn't a Trojan horse because it's right out in the open for anyone who wants to open their eyes. It's not hidden a bit. That was the whole point of the quote. "It was eventually brought into the debate and then rejected, like lots of other ideas. I'd like to see it brought back because I think it will increase competition and reduce the deficit (both of which I am in favor of)." Judah,. employers are dropping health insurance, especially in Mass. It is cheaper to pay the fine than pay for coverage. Insurance companies have already started limiting coverage. In Florida and Colorado, several companies will not issue new policies for children. At some point, if it is mandated that individuals buy insurance but there are no places to buy it, what will happen? You're a smart guy. I really think you can figure it out if you try. "I'm sure that if it comes back up there will be more debate and hysteronics and death panel claims, but yeah, no trojan horse." We agree. It's right there for everyone to see. The death panel issue is basically an extreme version of saying health care will be rationed. Judah, if there are not enough doctors and nurses now and, using the liberal estimate for the uninsured, 50 million people are added to the pool of active users, what will happen to medical services? Remember that the growth rate of doctors and nurses is not keeping up with the growth rate of the patient pool. Every year, the shortage gets more severe. Again, you're a smart guy. You can figure it out. "Uh, the logic behind the individual mandate (which was included in the new law) was explicitly to prevent that. Insurance companies (you know, the ones we are supposedly bankrupting) lobbied hard for it because they said that the only way they could reduce costs is if everyone was required to carry insurance. I'm not a fan of the individual mandate but AHIP got its way." Uh, whatever Judah. The insurance companies played both sides of the fence, just like any industry with too much money to burn would do. Do a little research on Wellpoint. The CEO publicly supported Health Care deform while the company was coercing its employees to write letters to their congressmen damning it. "Freak the fuck out! The country is dooooooooommmmmmeeeedddddd!" I've heard it before. A great deal of it on the first Wednesday in November in 2000 and the first Wednesday in November in 2004. " That sounds like a really wise idea, though I'd suggest you also see about a nice comfy chair, some jazz on the hi-fi and a relaxing cocktail." Nope. Cold draft beer in a low key bar with 90's grunge playing in the background is what I need. I don't do jazz, don't do cocktails, and enjoying my drinking in a booth. Add college football and cute waitresses and it's even better. " When your argument changes with every email you might want to stop, take a step back and think about where you're coming from." Regardless of the argument changes, I may want to stop. My premise is the same and this is the same old circle of arguments that come up all of the time. I should just find a link to any of the old threads and say go read this. When health care deform is leading to a single payer system with rationed care, I say it is the path to socialized medicine. One more step in the overall socialization of the country. It bothers me and it seems to bring joy to your heart. There really isn't much more to say besides we disagree. J - No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session. - Mark Twain The artificial aristocracy is a mischievous ingredient in government, and provisions should be made to prevent its ascendancy. - Thomas Jefferson ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/message.cfm/messageid:326785 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/unsubscribe.cfm
