No. Hamas began launching missiles in 2005 and haven't stopped since.
. On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 12:41 PM, GMoney <gm0n3...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Are these the facts? > > - some private Palestinian citizens killed 3 private Israeli citizens > - in retaliation, 3 private Israeli citizens murdered 3 (or was it more?) > palestinians in particularly gruesome fashion > - in retaliation for that, Hamas...which is PART OF THE RULING GOVERNMENT, > began launching missiles randomly into Israel. > - in retaliation for that, Israel began targeting the sources of those > missiles. In doing so, they gave advanced warning of the area for their > attacks. > - in response to that warning, Hamas ordered citizens either into those > areas, or to stay put if they were already there. > > And now we are wondering who is at fault for what in all this? > > Do I have this right? > > > On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 11:36 AM, Scott Stroz <boyz...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> No. I am talking about responsibility. >> >> Seems a lot of people are willing to give Israel a pass because the other >> guy made them do it. >> >> If Judah insults my wife and I tell him if he does not stop I will punch >> him in the face and he continues and I punch him in the face, am I not >> still responsible for my actions? Of course I am. Was I justified in them? >> Some might say yes, some might say no - but, justified or not, I am >> responsible for my actions. Same goes for Israel and Hamas - and every >> other country in the world. >> >> My overall point was, just because Israel warned the Palestinians what >> would happen doesn't mean they are not responsible for any civilian deaths >> - as some seemed to indicating. >> >> >> On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 12:31 PM, Jerry Milo Johnson <jmi...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> > >> > As with most things, I don't see it so cut-and-dry. >> > >> > You are not really talking "responsibility", you are talking "moral >> > culpability" I believe. >> > >> > And I don't think it falls on any one group. >> > >> > Israel is culpable for firing the weapon. And for allowing the situation >> to >> > sink to the point they have to. >> > Hamas is culpable for "forcing" Israel to fire, knowing full well the >> > consequences of their actions. >> > The civilians who elected Hamas are culpable for making terrorists their >> > elected government, knowing full well the type of government to expect. >> > The civilians who allow rocket launchers on their apartment rooftops are >> > culpable. >> > Iran and Syria and China are culpable for arming Hamas with rockets. >> > The Arab countries are responsible for forcing the Palestinians into >> those >> > camps, and using them as pawns. >> > Egypt is culpable for keeping the Gaza borders locked down. >> > America is culpable for arming Israel. And for not forcing a better >> > solution 10 years ago. and 20. and 40. >> > >> > There are degrees of culpability. >> > >> > But I guess here is my bottom line (that these talks have helped me >> > solidify). >> > >> > There is no excuse or reason for Hamas to fire rockets into Israel. None. >> > Zero. Not helping their cause, not helping their people, not helping >> their >> > military objectives. The ONLY point for them to fire is to force a >> response >> > from Israel, causing destruction and death to their own people, and then >> > crying foul. >> > >> > They are the Suarez of the Middle East. Ow! Hit hit my mouth! >> > >> > All else flows from those rockets. >> > >> > And nothing else good will come to them while that is their only tactic. >> > >> > >> > >> > On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 12:18 PM, Scott Stroz <boyz...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> > > >> > > Hamas would be responsible for any deaths from those missiles. >> > > >> > > Israel would be responsible for any deaths resulting from any counter >> > > attacks. >> > > >> > > As I mentioned to Sam, I think you guys are conflating the words >> > > 'responsible' and 'justified'. >> > > >> > > I am not talking about whether any of these actions is justified, >> rather, >> > > who is responsible for the deaths. >> > > >> > > >> > > On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 10:06 AM, LRS Scout <lrssc...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> > > >> > > > >> > > > So over night the Israelis took part in a cease fire organized by >> > Egypt. >> > > > >> > > > Hamas chose not to take part and fired 50 additional missiles >> > > > On Jul 15, 2014 9:56 AM, "Sam" <sammyc...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > If you're going to analogize, at least put it in perspective. >> > > > > Let's say ranchers in CA, TX and AZ constantly fired missiles into >> > > > > Mexico every day. Mexico tells the US government to make them stop >> or >> > > > > they will fire back and the US did nothing. Then, Mexico called, >> > > > > emailed, texted and dropped leaflets to the houses, churches and >> > > > > schools that were firing the missiles explaining when and where the >> > > > > bombs would land. If the ranchers rallied more people to go to the >> > > > > target sites to die for the cause than that's on the ranchers and >> the >> > > > > people that showed up at the scheduled time. Unless Mexico went to >> > the >> > > > > sites and checked, how would they know if civilians were there? >> Then >> > > > > you have to say to yourself, if these people are willing to die to >> > > > > send a message, they are probably willing to strap a bomb on and go >> > to >> > > > > a crowded market so good riddance. But no, the Mexican government >> > > > > sends more notices pleading people to leave the targets at the >> given >> > > > > times, they use more precise weapons to limit casualties and they >> > > > > still get called the terrorist. It's called propaganda and you are >> > > > > buying into it. >> > > > > >> > > > > . >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 10:33 PM, Scott Stroz <boyz...@gmail.com> >> > > wrote: >> > > > > > >> > > > > > OK..so if Mexico launched an attack on the White House and >> > civilians >> > > > that >> > > > > > lived or worked near the intended target died, Mexico would be >> > > absolved >> > > > > of >> > > > > > those deaths as long as they warned us ahead of time? >> > > > > > >> > > > > > And, sorry, but they are still 'people'. maybe not people we >> like, >> > > but >> > > > > > people nonetheless. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Again, absolutely befuddled this is coming from you. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> >> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/message.cfm/messageid:371557 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/unsubscribe.cfm
