I'm an objectivist. Absolutes are all I have :) Tim
-----Original Message----- From: S. Isaac Dealey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 7:39 PM To: CF-Community Subject: RE: Re: RE: What would you do if you won PowerBall? > So basically your saying there were no famines or wars of > aggression and conquest throughout history? How in THE WORLD did you conclude that?! Are we even having the same conversation? Can you offer me a road map? > Dewd, seriously this is some slanted thinking. Agrarian > societies were feudal or some other totalitarian system. > This idea of community that your preaching doesn't work > in the real world. Each individual has to make all decisions regarding change for themselves. That being said, as an individual it is possible to change your lifestyle. Sometimes those changes are things that have minimal impact on you as an individual, such as chosing to use cloth kitchen towels instead of paper towels. Other times they hare significant impact on you, like chosing not to drive or own a car. It's possible to make large changes (like not driving) and still maintain other elements of your lifestyle, for instance, when you stop driving, you don't necessarily have to change your diet. It's a non-sequitur to assume that because the larger agrarian societies we have knowledge of in our history were fuedal or totalitarian means that all agrarian societies ever have been or ever will be fuedal or totalitarian or _more_importantly_ that they are by necessity more cruel to the people in them than a capitalist society. Just as it would be a non-sequitur to assume that because someone choses to give up cars as a part of their lifestyle that they must change their diet (because they can't manageably carry the food they like home on the buss for instance). There are also many current-day examples of agrarian communities that work quite well: http://www.ic.org Lastly, why do you assume that when I speak I'm speaking with a "voice" of absolutes? Isaac > Timothy Heald > Information Systems Specialist > Overseas Security Advisory Council > U.S. Department of State > 571.345.2235 > -----Original Message----- > From: s. isaac dealey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 4:10 PM > To: CF-Community > Subject: RE: Re: RE: What would you do if you won > PowerBall? > I suppose ultimately that I don't understand why people > can't grow their own > food -- or just live tribally, you know, hunter/gatherer > -- with the > possible exception of being on a small island where every > square meter of > land belongs to someone who's unwilling to share in which > case my answer is > to ration the land and/or provide those without any > transportation to > someplace else... > I don't think personally that I'd like to go back to an > entirely > pre-agricultural state, because I suspect it's a lot > easier to get by and > have food if you grow it intentionally, but, the fact that > we're still here > at all is absolute proof that it can be done if necessary. > In some ways > growing your own food is even better than having it grown > by large corporate > agro-businesses and shipped hundreds or thousands of miles > to the grocery in > big diesel trucks. Personally I'd really like to go back > to living > communally and growing our own food at least for myself, > although I don't > expect everyone to do that. I certainly think that would > be a step up from a > sweat shop. > Isaac > Original Message ----------------------- > If the alternative is starvation most people are willing > to work. Be nice > if children didnt have to face that choice. > William Wheatley writes: >> Play devils advocate what about the kids who have to have >> a job and money > in >> order to survive for whatever reason? >> >> I was listening to a piece on npr where a kid was saying >> (via translator) >> how he needed to work. When the inspector (or whatever >> the proper title > is) >> tried to shut the place down he fired the underage kid >> who was then > screwed >> since they didn't have the money to pay for food and >> such. They also > talked >> about child labor unions so the kids could make good $$. >> If there is > nothing >> else for a child to do and they have to work why should >> we hold the >> children, who WILLINGLY want to work , back and limit >> them. There is no >> social security in those countries no foster care what >> would become of > them >> if they were unable to work and provide for themselves. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "s. isaac dealey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 1:31 PM >> Subject: RE: RE: What would you do if you won PowerBall? >> >> >> > How about buying the Gap (or some other large US-grown >> > corp) and forcing >> them to stop actively contributing to sweat shops in >> third world > countries? >> > >> > http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q= >> > area+code+map >> > >> > >> > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/audiovideo/programmes/panorama/ > archive/970385.stm >> > >> > Isaac >> > >> > Original Message ----------------------- >> > OK then I started this so here is mine. >> > >> > In no particular order (most likely all at once) >> > >> > - I would open an account for my grandmother to do with >> > what she wants > as >> > she has supported me (bailed me out) for most of my >> > life. >> > - Buy a house on an island and retire with my friends >> > and family >> > - Maybe a mountain retreat somewhere with a huge >> > telescope >> > - Visit the Great Wall of China >> > - Pay the Russians a million dollars to take me to >> > space (maybe :)) >> > - College for my kids (this includes some friends kids) >> > - I would like to buy a huge piece of the rain forest >> > that I will never >> burn >> > or run off the natives. >> > - Buy Old Navy and force them to carry cloths for >> > everyone. >> > >> > There is probably more. >> > >> > Rick Eidson >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 11:42 AM >> > To: CF-Community >> > Subject: Re: What would you do if you won PowerBall? >> > >> > off the top, in no particular order: >> > >> > - keep working until I can pass knowledge on to a >> > successor >> > - fix up the house, just the way we want it >> > (it's "home", so don't want to move to another place, >> > maybe just expand) >> > - buy homes for kids, relatives, friends, so they >> > always have a roof > over >> > - donate enough money to a particular charitable org >> > (one my Mom worked >> > with) >> > for them to build a school with her name on it >> > - build a homeless shelter w/ job training center >> > - open a company to hire the successful grads of the >> > job center >> > - build an apartment complex to house the workers >> > - travel, travel, travel >> > - study >> > - volunteer >> > - pray >> > - get really physically fit >> > - watch videos >> > - sleep late sometimes, then start the day by making >> > love >> > instead of waking up early to go to work >> > >> > -Ben >> > >> > >> > > http://www.thekansascitychannel.com/news/2382747/deta >> > > il.html >> > > >> > > >> > > Rick >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ~~~~~~~~~~~| > Archives: > http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=5 > Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index. > cfm?method=subscribe&forumid=5 > Your ad could be here. 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