labor laws anyway!
DRE
-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Graeme [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 8:27 AM
To: CF-Community
Subject: Re: More Breaking News
Tim, you're talking about periods in history when complete self sufficiency
by the majority was possible due to a more agrarian society. There was a
significantly smaller population as well as a lower baseline of technology.
And from what I've read, there WAS rampant crime from the immigrants.
Organized crime even. In many ways organized crime also took on the burden
of social welfare. Whether that was giving young people jobs or "looking
after their own".
I highly recommend taking some social sciences and economics classes to get
a broader view of social welfare and the benefits of a minimum wage. I'm not
saying you have to agree, just that there are strong benefits for rich as
well as the poor with the system we have.
-Kevin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Heald, Tim" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 8:56 AM
Subject: RE: More Breaking News
> Those are nations almost entirely without the rule of law. The comparison
> is ridiculous.
>
> Why didn't Irish immigrants rob and kill on the massive levels your
talking
> about? Or any of the large number of displaced former slaves and military
> personnel after the civil war? Obviously there were individual instance
> where these things happened, but it was not the norm, nor would it be
here.
>
> --
> Timothy Heald
> Web Portfolio Manager
> Overseas Security Advisory Council
> U.S. Department of State
> 571.345.2319
>
> The opinions expressed here do not necessarily reflect those of the U.S.
> Department of State or any affiliated organization(s). Nor have these
> opinions been approved or sanctioned by these organizations. This e-mail
is
> unclassified based on the definitions in E.O. 12958.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matthew Small [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 9:55 AM
> To: CF-Community
> Subject: Re: More Breaking News
>
>
> Yes, I am aware of that.
>
> I am also aware that people who live in abject poverty will do anything to
> survive and protect themselves and their families. Public executions
don''t
> stop a family from going hungry.
>
> There are entire nations who live by exactly the ideals that you're
talking
> about. These countries are: Somailia, Afganistan, and Sierra Leone to
name
> a few.
>
> - Matt Small
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Heald, Tim
> To: CF-Community
> Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 9:42 AM
> Subject: RE: More Breaking News
>
> You do know that their wasn't always welfare and minimum wage in this
> nation
> right?
>
> I figure that after the first couple of public executions people would
> stop
> doing that :)
>
> And yes I do actually support the idea of public executions.
>
> --
> Timothy Heald
> Web Portfolio Manager
> Overseas Security Advisory Council
> U.S. Department of State
> 571.345.2319
>
> The opinions expressed here do not necessarily reflect those of the U.S.
> Department of State or any affiliated organization(s). Nor have these
> opinions been approved or sanctioned by these organizations. This e-mail
> is
> unclassified based on the definitions in E.O. 12958.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matthew Small [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 9:41 AM
> To: CF-Community
> Subject: Re: More Breaking News
>
> If there were no minimum wage law and there was no public welfare then
you
> would likely be shot in the street for your wallet and groceries by
people
> needing to eat.
>
> You don't antagonize a hungry dog.
>
> - Matt Small
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Simon Horwith
> To: CF-Community
> Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 9:24 AM
> Subject: RE: More Breaking News
>
> but the idea behind Minimum wage is that it guarantees a standard of
> living
> that, though still at or near poverty level, does help to guarantee
> certain
> basic living standards. Even then, the minimum wage tends not to
> keep-up
> with the rise in inflation. That said, if a higher inflation rate is
> the
> price we must pay in order to guarantee legal workers a chance at a
> decent
> life, so be it.
>
> ~Simon
>
> Simon Horwith
> CTO, Etrilogy Ltd.
> Member of Team Macromedia
> Macromedia Certified Instructor
> Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer
> Certified Flash MX Developer
> CFDJList - List Administrator
> http://www.how2cf.com/ <http://www.how2cf.com/>
<http://www.how2cf.com/>
> <http://www.how2cf.com/>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Heald, Tim [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: 07 January 2004 14:02
> To: CF-Community
> Subject: RE: More Breaking News
>
> I think two main things have led us through inflation and rising
> costs.
>
> 1. Coming off of the gold standard, thanx Nixon.
>
> 2. Minimum wage.
>
> Why in a free market economy should the government dictate what one
> side
> of
> an open trade should receive? If a person is willing to work for
next
> to
> nothing, should they not be able to? Also, to return to a place
where
> we
> can compete in a world economy as not just a service provider, but
an
> industrial base, we need low pay low skill employees. As long as
law
> requires us to meet and exceed basic standards we cannot do so.
>
> The only other answer would be to severely penalize countries and
> companies
> that don't meet the same requirements that we impose internally.
>
> We start by exactly matching tariffs imposed by other nations
against
> our
> goods. Add additional tariffs to nations that don't afford their
> employees
> the same minimum standing of living, add even more for nations that
> don't
> have basic human rights.
>
> It would be painful, maybe even start a war or two, but I think it
> would
> be
> worth it in the long run.
>
> --
> Timothy Heald
> Web Portfolio Manager
> Overseas Security Advisory Council
> U.S. Department of State
> 571.345.2319
>
> The opinions expressed here do not necessarily reflect those of the
> U.S.
> Department of State or any affiliated organization(s). Nor have
these
> opinions been approved or sanctioned by these organizations. This
> is
> unclassified based on the definitions in E.O. 12958.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Simon Horwith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 8:58 AM
> To: CF-Community
> Subject: RE: More Breaking News
>
> Hey - I like cutting my own lawn.
>
> I'm no economist, bu i wouldn't hold your breath on seeing minimum
> wage
> go
> away. Quite honestly, as far as I know it shouldn't go away. The
> goal
> shouldn't be to do away with it so that companies can hire Americans
> for
> as
> cheap as they can get illegal labor, but to legalize all of the
labor
> to
> the
> extent that it all falls under minimum wage law. That way there'd
be
> no
> benefit to hiring an illegal labourer as opposed to a legal one
> (they'd
> cost
> the same). Without minimum wage, what would protect the workforce -
> especially unskilled and manual labour? Of course, this would most
> likely
> result in even more work being outsourced to countries like India...
> any
> work that can be, anyway.
>
> ~Simon
>
> Simon Horwith
> CTO, Etrilogy Ltd.
> Member of Team Macromedia
> Macromedia Certified Instructor
> Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer
> Certified Flash MX Developer
> CFDJList - List Administrator
> http://www.how2cf.com/ <http://www.how2cf.com/>
<http://www.how2cf.com/>
> <http://www.how2cf.com/>
> <http://www.how2cf.com/>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Heald, Tim [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: 07 January 2004 13:36
> To: CF-Community
> Subject: RE: More Breaking News
>
> >We have 10.5 million illegal workers in the United States right
> now,"
> said
> US Chamber of Commerce President Thomas Donohue.
>
> >"If they went home, we'd have to shut down the country."
>
> Hehe, or we'd just have to learn how to cut our own lawn again.
:)
>
> Immigration is probably where I am furthest from libertarian. At
> this
> point
> I am almost isolationist. I would much rather see work-fare
> programs
> that
> get people off the rolls of welfare and into low and no skill
jobs.
> Really
> if we could do away with the minimum wage and make it so that
these
> companies that hire illegals because they can't afford Americans,
> can
> again,
> it would be good for us all.
>
> Also isn't this going to encourage MORE illegal immigration, as
> people
> will
> see the "success stories" of people who got legal recognition.
Plus
> the
> way
> many state governments are set up, don't immigrants, even
> non-citizens,
> then
> become eligible for social programs, like welfare and medical
> benefits?
>
> Yeah I can't see how any of this is a good idea.
>
> --
> Timothy Heald
> Web Portfolio Manager
> Overseas Security Advisory Council
> U.S. Department of State
> 571.345.2319
>
> The opinions expressed here do not necessarily reflect those of
the
> U.S.
> Department of State or any affiliated organization(s). Nor have
> these
> opinions been approved or sanctioned by these organizations. This
> is
> unclassified based on the definitions in E.O. 12958.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Erika L Walker-Arnold [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 8:27 AM
> To: CF-Community
> Subject: More Breaking News
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3375327.stm
<http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3375327.stm>
> <http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3375327.stm>
> <http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3375327.stm>
> <http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3375327.stm>
> <http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3375327.stm>
>
> Cheers,
> Erika
> _____
> _____
> _____
> _____
>
>
>
_____
[Todays Threads] [This Message] [Subscription] [Fast Unsubscribe] [User Settings]
