Hello Aaron, I have worked for companies that outsourced their jobs to India. Probably, I should NOT mention company names for privacy purposes but I will tell of my experience. I am not trying to put India down or attack Indian people. This is just my personal experience. I do think that Indian people are smart people. In fact, my dad is Indian and my mom is Brazilian. I was born and raised in Brazil though so my culture is Brazilian without any Indian influence (yes, no influence). However, all these companies I worked for that outsourced their code to India ended up with bad code. Think about messy code. It was a real mess. No standards, no guidelines, no comments or documentation of any kind, no code indentation, no orientation or organization whatsoever. A total junk of code. I would often open a cfm file that contained 5,000 lines of code. Most of it was code that was not even being utilized. It felt like the code had been patched up over and over again. So these companies ended up having to employ people from here to fix or start from scratch. My personal experience with outsourced work has always been very bad due to bad coding habits. Not to mention the communication gap. As the old saying..."You get what you pay for" is very true with outsourced jobs. I mean, we have the work force available in the US to do what these companies need. I say..let's stop outsourcing our jobs. But who am I to say anything. I am from Brazil...I guess if I were in Brazil and I had an outsourced job there...I would take it in a heart bit (survival of the fittest). But my advise to companies here in the US is trust your employees. Let them do the work and pay them well. It will pay off on the long run.
I think that here in the US...most programmers are aware of code organization and most are well prepared to do the job. Will other countries catch up? Hell yeah...it won't take long...but man...right now...no India please. The code is bad. As far as "servant" goes...like I said..it is tougher for foreigners anyways but take the opportunity to work here because at least you and me and others have these opportunities available (jobs in South America or Europe don't pay good at all). Make no mistake...the economy will get better. It will improve by the end of next year and all these tech jobs will come back. It may not be as great as it was before but it will pick up again. Just my $0.02, Ravi. Aaron Rouse wrote: > Interesting outlook although over here at least the CIO's message to > managers is move all development to the east(they are referring to India) > because "we are not an IT company". I had a meeting last week with a local > manager and he told me they are seeing a 50% drop in efficiency by moving > things to the east then he mentioned another 20% drop but I forget what that > was for. He then went on to say how he then ends up paying for a competent > PM locally to interface with one overseas whereas before he would have > developers who wore the PM hat under his direction. Overall he said he is > ending up with lesser quality work and paying more money but has been forced > to go this direction. So basically the quality and integrity of the current > workers means very little to the higher ups here. > > I'd like to think that I do a really good and honest job and for fair rates. > I know I certainly have plenty of references to back that thought up. > However more times than not I feel like I am treated more like a "servant" > than anything else. > > Guess I should get back to working on the training document I am making to > use to train the overseas based developers that are replacing me in upcoming > months. Oh the joys of corporate IT. > > On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 9:11 AM, Ravi Gehlot <r...@ravigehlot.net> wrote: > > >> Hello Jeffry, >> >> I hear that a lot........I believe that there is good and bad >> everywhere. In my opinion, if you are really good and you do your job >> honestly, no matter who you are (native or foreigner), that you will get >> paid fairly and you will not be treated as servants (not sure about >> other countries). Be it a foreigner or a native, it does not really >> matter anymore. It may have mattered in the past but not anymore. I do >> not believe that foreigners are taking away the jobs natives can do (I >> refer to computer related jobs). I believe that natives are choosing the >> best work force for their current needs. >> >> Do I think that it is somewhat harder for foreigners than it is for >> natives? Yes. I do think that it is but this is a country of >> opportunity. The kind of opportunity that you will never find elsewhere. >> So I would take any hardness that I find here for a chance to better >> myself. >> >> H1B Visas are HARDLY being issued (so I hear). Its almost unheard of >> these days. Either you come here on a student visa (I-20 co-op program) >> or you better have a Green Card. H1B Visas can cost a LOT of money to >> companies and it is ONLY worth in exceptional cases. I heard about a >> company that brought this Chinese dude that was phenomenal. He could do >> virtually anything you can imagine. He was one of a kind >> programmer...very smart...later got admitted at MIT and today if I am >> not mistaken he works for NASA. The company sponsored his Green Card and >> everything. Only those kind of people are getting H1B Visas these days >> (so I heard). It is very selective these days. >> >> My sister is a Canadian citizen and she was telling me about Canadian >> immigration laws the other day. She told me that in order for anyone to >> enter Canada that they need to be qualified. The Canadians have a score >> system. You need to have a certain score in order to enter Canada. So >> for example, if you have a bachelors degree you automatically get more >> points. If you have a valid work history then that also counts towards >> your score. This way only the qualified people get in. What I love about >> Canada is that once they filtered everyone, they make it easy for you to >> get the Canadian citizenship. Forget about this bullshit of Green Card. >> There are no talks about foreigners being servants in Canadians (so I >> hear). I just think that we should implement some type of score system >> or "qualification measurement" so to only let those who are qualified >> into the country. Indeed, make it easy for newcomers to get their Green >> Cards. >> >> wowwwwwwwwww...OK! I gotta work now...got carried away...anyways...cya >> >> Ravi. >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;207172674;29440083;f Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/message.cfm/messageid:4214 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
