it's unfortunate that we have to fight off a trends because bad design 
becomes standard.

the user experience can become enriched whatever medium it is delivered 
in. I think what sets us back in when people compare "cf" to "flash" or 
"dhtml" to "flash"

All these tools can play friendly together. I would be upset if everyone 
just "settled" on 1 particular navigation. I guess I am just surprised 
with the either or methodology here.


Lofback, Chris wrote:
>>Blue, underlined text is hardly navigation. That's just a common
>>identifier for a link, which in HTML is an action, not necessarily
>>navigation. A link can do a number of things like execute a javascript
>>function or dhtml. 
>>
>>Google, since you mention how standard it is, does not use 
>>this for it's
>>core navigation. Web, Images, Groups, Directory, and News (The four
>>categories of google) are represented with blue text in a box. If
>>selected the box is blue, if not it's gray. This is hardly a standard,
>>but none the less is effective because users are familiar with tabular
>>menus.
> 
> 
> <CF_UsabilitySoapBox>
> 
> Well, this is quibbling over minor differences and word definitions.  And I know I'm 
> blowing against the wind here, but the simple fact is that users know what to do 
> with blue, underlined text and HTML buttons.  Why deviate from something that users 
> know?  It only makes it harder for them and increases the likelihood that they won't 
> use your site--unless they have no place else to go.  Here is the key phrase in your 
> post:
> 
> 
>>effective because users are familiar
> 
> 
> That is the heart of the matter.
> 
> 
>>Every site, whether flash or html, navigate completely different. 
> 
> 
> This is pretty much true and it's a negative, not a positive.  On the web, different 
> != good usability.  All of those sites with different/unique navigation are harder 
> to use than "standard" blue underlines and HTML widgets because users have to figure 
> them out--and they HATE that.  Even if you think, what's the big deal, it only takes 
> a few minutes?  They HATE to be forced to learn something new when all they want to 
> do is...whatever...anything but be forced by some web site to endure their 
> "different" navigation.
> 
> Look at Yahoo, eBay, Amazon and Google.  I'd guess they are among the most heavily 
> used sites and they rely on "standard" light/white background, dark/black text, blue 
> underlined links and (for the most part) standard form elements.   Minor 
> differences, but they don't stray far from the basics.  They know what works.  And 
> we can leverage the usability of those sites by mimicking their navigation and 
> design elements.  Most users will know how to navigate a site that looks like them.  
> I know this is anathema to all of the web artistes out there, but it's the truth: 
> the big sites really define usability for the rest of us.  We ignore it at our peril.
> 
> There is room for individuality, but most of the Flash example that were suggested 
> on the list are shooting themselves in the foot, IMHO.  If we, as developers, care 
> whether or not our site is usable by the most people (which means more opportunities 
> for sales/readers/customers/etc) then we must bow to the simple needs of users and 
> not force our techie-oriented "user experiences" on them.  And using Flash like most 
> sites do goes against good usability.
> 
> </CF_UsabilitySoapBox>
> 
> Man, I need a weekend off!  :)
> 
> Chris
> 
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