To throw out other ideas, I've really enjoyed using ipython notebook Here is an example notebook from someone else http://nbviewer.ipython.org/github/agconti/kaggle-titanic/blob/master/Titanic.ipynb
And a random youtube video I found https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6dLGQw9yFQ Here's a similar concept for R http://ramnathv.github.io/rNotebook/ I like being able to see the entire end result and then explore certain sections. I can do something similar with emacs and org-mode with J but it'd be nice to incorporate the interactive repl I think something like ipython notebook combined with spx to play and inspect each section/line at a time would be powerful On Tue, May 27, 2014 at 10:14 AM, Eric Iverson <eric.b.iver...@gmail.com>wrote: > The labs were great in their time. Rather than recreate that wheel it > might be worthwhile to step back and look at the issues in current > light. > > I think the labs structure is too restricted. I strongly favor the JHS > spx approach that lets you treat any script (or any text file) as a > lab. I think this is a compelling argument. Right now the spx facility > is very simple but could be easily improved. Effort here might be > better than on the old lab aurthor system. > > The other part of the solution (that would fit hand in glove with > enhanced spx) is to take advantage of the fact the scripts are loaded > (and spx managed) with J code. This means it is easy to make the > source script much richer. I think html with custom tags is the way to > go to have a single script that can be used to load an applicaton, run > an spx lab, and to have a literate programming display. Lots of hand > waving here, but a script that started with an <html> tag could be > handled specially by various programs. Load would strip out all lines > not in <code-load) tags. spx could have special treatment of other > tags. Publish could do similar processing. And just showing the script > in a browser would be useful. > > Lots of handwaving above, but I think this is the way to go. One nice > thing is that it could be done in small steps with immediate benefits. > For example the step to have load just handle the lines in <code-load> > tags and to just treat the script as html for display would provide > quite a few features. In fact, it might be best to just have html > scripts that can be handled by load and spx. Maybe foo.ijs.html > scripts. > > Note that spx is not specific to JHS. It works reasonably well in Jqt > or Jconsole and could the rough edges in those environments can easily > be fixed with a bit of J programming. The new release of Jd uses spx > and works in all front ends. > > Potential lab authors are far better off to learn some html than a J > specific lab authoring facility. > > Any interest in making the general issue of labs/literate > programming/publishing the topic of a workshop at the conference in > July? > > > On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 10:23 PM, robert therriault > <bobtherria...@mac.com> wrote: > > Well, I am looking at it and I will keep everyone posted if I make any > progress, but I really won't feel bad if someone else wanted to take it on > (or even better join in). > > > > I am starting with the JHS system using Safari as my browser. Even > though the lab .ijt files are text files which any version of J would read, > some of the instructions to initiate events such as running video are > dependent on the J environment being used, so that generalization across > the different environments may be end up being a challenge. > > > > The first challenge is to get people to think that it is not a bad idea. > :-) > > > > Cheers, bob > > > > On May 26, 2014, at 7:05 PM, Raul Miller <rauldmil...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> Does that mean you are volunteering to do the update? > >> > >> ;) > >> > >> Thanks, > >> > >> -- > >> Raul > >> > >> > >> > >> On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 8:56 PM, robert therriault < > bobtherria...@mac.com>wrote: > >> > >>> Hey Raul, > >>> > >>> Developing a tool that can be used to create labs as they are imagined > now > >>> is mostly an update from the previous lab author, so most of the heavy > >>> lifting has been done. The next level is to come up with what labs > might > >>> become; incorporating a number of communications methods that html5 > makes > >>> available with an interface that reduces the overhead to lab creation. > I > >>> would like to say it is the interface design that I find most > difficult, > >>> but really the biggest challenge is personal time management. :-) > >>> > >>> Cheers, bob > >>> > >>> On May 26, 2014, at 5:21 PM, Raul Miller <rauldmil...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >>> > >>>> Keep in mind that my "don't like video" is limited - I *would* like it > >>>> under a variety of circumstances and I would not hesitate to > recommend it > >>>> for some purposes. > >>>> > >>>> I'm not trying to say it's bad or anything. But I guess I do avoid it > in > >>>> some contexts. > >>>> > >>>> Meanwhile, it can't be that hard to document the data format for labs. > >>>> > >>>> Thanks, > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> Raul > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 4:36 PM, robert therriault < > >>> bobtherria...@mac.com>wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Hey Raul, > >>>>> > >>>>> 1) One of the advantages of scripted video is that there is a written > >>>>> artefact that could be included for search purposes. Similar to the > way > >>>>> that SVG includes its text as searchable content as opposed to > bitmaps > >>> of > >>>>> words on canvas. > >>>>> > >>>>> 2) This is a little trickier because it implicitly dives through the > >>>>> levels that we interact with video. The pixelmator video example was > one > >>>>> that I was looking at as a viewer (because it is pretty) and as a > >>> content > >>>>> creator (by the way it conveyed information so efficiently). The > level > >>> you > >>>>> are talking about is the level of the tool to create such a video or > >>> image. > >>>>> The reason that J doesn't have such a tool is probably because this > >>> level > >>>>> of UI is really difficult to get right and even when you do, the > users > >>> may > >>>>> turn on you, such as when Apple introduced the new version of Final > Cut > >>>>> Pro. Also, there may not be reasons for J to manipulate video in this > >>> way > >>>>> when there are other tools already available, but you already > referred > >>> to > >>>>> this when you talked of bringing other tools such as Blender. > >>> Currently, I > >>>>> am taking a hard look at the labs feature in J to provide this type > of > >>>>> glue. Amazingly, we lack a creation tool for labs in the newer > versions > >>> of > >>>>> J and if there were a tool that would be > >>>>> worth building, I think that would be it. > >>>>> > >>>>> 3) In signing off (and even though you don't like video) I just > opened a > >>>>> link to this orientation/welcoming tutorial produced by > >>> processing.orgthat also has content that involves the visual aspects > and > >>> power of > >>>>> computer programming. Might be worth a look. > >>> http://hello.processing.org/ > >>>>> > >>>>> Cheers, bob > >>>>> > >>>>> On May 26, 2014, at 10:46 AM, Raul Miller <rauldmil...@gmail.com> > >>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> I guess I have two thoughts looking at that: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> (1) I personally prefer reading over video. Video is really hard to > >>> find > >>>>>> using search, and it's slow to watch. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> (2) Why don't I know how to generate a UI like that, using J? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Of course anything worth doing takes time, and I have to allow for > >>> that. > >>>>>> But video is particularly frustrating for me, also because I don't > know > >>>>> how > >>>>>> to manipulate the raw underlying data in J. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Thanks, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -- > >>>>>> Raul > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 1:23 PM, robert therriault < > >>>>> bobtherria...@mac.com>wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Thanks Raul, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Another (albeit market driven) approach is the short video > tutorial to > >>>>>>> describe use of a specific tooll. These short tutorials for the > use of > >>>>>>> pixelmator software are good because they have actually provided > very > >>>>>>> precise instruction on use of a tool in about a minute. The amount > of > >>>>> time > >>>>>>> required to create these tutorials is even more than writing, as it > >>>>>>> includes video production, but the result is a just in time > tutorial > >>>>> that > >>>>>>> does not feel too pedantic. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> http://www.pixelmator.com/tutorials/featured/transform-tool/ > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Cheers, bob > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On May 26, 2014, at 10:06 AM, Raul Miller <rauldmil...@gmail.com> > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Writing decent tutorial documentation can be hard. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> So here's an example of how one guy who has written a fair amount > of > >>>>>>>> documentation has approached things: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> http://www.xess.com/static/media/appnotes/FpgasNowWhatBook.pdf > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Personally, I'm not all that fond of pdf - I personally prefer > >>> working > >>>>>>> more > >>>>>>>> directly with the underlying medium. But everybody has to make > their > >>>>> own > >>>>>>>> choices. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Thanks, > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>> Raul > >>>>>>>> > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>>>> For information about J forums see > >>> http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>>> For information about J forums see > >>> http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>> For information about J forums see > http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > >>>>> > >>>>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>> For information about J forums see > http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > >>>>> > >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>> For information about J forums see > http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > >>> > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > >>> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
