OK...
My dear friend, NRF, over here is fired up and ready to go on anyone, who responds on this thread. :) Nothing personal, but you did mentioned, or rather gave a lot of stress on maintaining crime-less life (I am not able to understand the reason for the same, did I mentioned that I was advocating criminals, or are higher number CCIEs are? not sure) then, you mentioned that knowing English is necessary or prudent for finding a job in US. Well (though I know English reasonably well, but) I will like to ask you one thing, do one has IT jobs in US only?, I am located in India, so does that means that there is a complete lack of Networking or IT jobs in India..? Coming back to the main thread, (though people do deviate from the main threads and wander around, and my response was totally focused on Peter's response), I am not a CCIE, yet, but whenever I get this number for me, be it 12000 or 20000, I will not trade it for any lower number. It will be MY number, and I will not like to part with it. And, while we are discussing the importance or value of the CCIE program, why was it the case that we had to start this number trading exercise? Just my Rs. 0.02. Vikram -----Original Message----- From: n rf [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 11:25 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: number of CCIE [7:70151] Vikram JeetSingh wrote: > > Hi All, > > I was stopping myself for writing on this thread for quite some > time. Quite > a number of people have reverted back on this, but this one, > (from Peter) is > just kind of PERFECT. Priscilla also wrote on one of other > threads, that for > having a worthwhile career you just don't need good networking > skills, but > also "good networking of people". And I am sure it works. I > have seen quite > some useful mails from NRF, but this one is a losing battle > (NRF: don't mind > friend, nothing personal) and what Peter has stated is > perfectly right (of > course as per me) So a CCIE number, does matter, but more so, > since all the > chances are that the lower number ones would be having more > experience and > better "networking of people". And the higher numbered ones > would be, in all > chances, relatively new and also still into the stage of > building their > "networking of people". > > Just my 2 cents :) I have never said that people-networking wasn't important. In fact, I have engaged in many newsgroup-post-wars where I have stated precisely that. Go reference some of my many posts on this newsgroup or on alt.certification.cisco on this very subject. However to talk about this subject is really to raise an issue that, for purposes of this discussion, is neither here nor there. The issue at hand is has the value of the CCIE declined over time, and the preponderance of the evidence seems to be that the answer is 'yes', given the fact that everybody, including myself, would like to trade their CCIE number for a lower one. Nor is the gambit that this has to do with the connection between a lower number and more experience have much, if anything, to do with it. I would ask even the lower-number and highly experienced CCIE's would they be neutral to trading their number for a higher one. I'm not asking them to think about trading their experience, just their number. If the CCIE hasn't declined, then they shouldn't care what number they are. But of course we all realize that they DO care, and care deeply. Raising other issues that have to do with employment is not really relevant in this thread. After all, if we wanted to go down that road, then why don't we raise ALL the issues that affect employment? I would say that certain other things are even more important than the people-networking in terms of finding work. For example, a criminal background. I don't care if you're the most brilliant engineer in the world, you're CCIE #1026, and you're on a first name basis with John Chambers - if you're a convicted serial-killer, you're going to have difficulty in finding work. Let's face it - no company is ever going to hire Charles Manson. We could talk about personal lifestyle choices. If you're a coke fiend, finding a job might not be easy for you. If you can't speak the language of the country in which you're trying to find a job, you will have great difficulty no matter how wonderful your other credentials you are. For example, surely you would agree that if you want to get a job as a network guy in the USA, this might be difficult if you can't speak English. But should we really be talking about those kinds of things? I don't think so, for they are not relevant to the discussion. The auspices of this discussion are necessarily narrow - basically what has happened to the value of the CCIE. This is not a general discussion about how to find a job, for which the first tenets should be don't commit crimes, don't make harmful lifestyle choices, and learn the language of the country that you're in, and then (and only then) can we talk about things like who-you-know and what your CCIE number is. Surely you would agree that such a complete discussion that talked about all these issues would be unnecessarily bloated and top-heavy. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=70850&t=70151 -------------------------------------------------- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
