no wise man would disagree with Howard ;-)
I agree that there is no financial incentive for Cisco to implement PPPOE
support for home/SOHO and I'm sure the carriers who sell other services
aimed at let's say, branch offices, are more than happy with the
shortcomings of DSL. Cisco does have a product line that targets places like
realty, law, automotive (mom & pop) or other small business that require
only sporadic dialup use from more than one PC and now we see PPPOE client
side support for 1600 and 1700 models. I'm confident that this base is not a
major source of revenue, and I am sure there are businesses that need to
keep their overhead as low as possible for which DSL could be an attractive
compromise that vastly out performs dialup. Availability aside, there are
very attractive business packages where one wouldn't need to feel guilty
about trying to swindle a residential account for business use ;-), which
you may not be able to get in a "proper" place of business anyway. Although
I live in Germany, I am American (and, BTW, will return shortly) and DSL is
sh*t hot over here. I've had it for almost a year and the first 6 months
there were one or two 1-12 hour outages a month and now I can't remember any
outages in the last couple months at all. I was also over here during the
big ISDN rollout in the early 90's and they really got that right, you can
live on a farm miles from town and still get ISDN. We use DSL at work for an
office that requires additional bandwidth and needless to say there was a
problem right after installation. The tech showed up the next day and I made
a joke about if this was my home installation I would still be waiting for
the callback and he joked back that we don't screw around with our business
customers. Yes, Germany pretty much has a telephony monopoly (even though
there are now competitors), but that's a whole different conversation I
won't get into here... back on topic: I still think it would be a proactive
move on Cisco's part to integrate PPPOE support in the models that are
specifically targeted at SOHO and even those at the branch office level. Why
wait for an increased demand IF (and only if) the implementation would/could
be fairly straightforward (it may not be, I'm no programmer). Possibly this
is a litmus test and will propagate to the 2500s. I of course want it solely
for selfish, personal at home use ;-) Doesn't everyone have at least a
couple of 2500s at home?? (that was a JOKE).
I kinda think Cisco might be experimenting in this arena anyway (the home
perspective):
Cisco Announces Program to Connect with Homebuilders
Cisco's Connected Communities program helps developers integrate the
Internet Lifestyle into master planned communities
http://newsroom.cisco.com/dlls/corp_020901.html
Cisco has a lot of different models and I'm certainly not familiar with all
of them, hopefully I'm not totally out in left field here.....
Tim
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
> Howard C. Berkowitz
> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 5:24 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: DSL internet with PPPoE
>
>
> Continuing to consider why Cisco would or would not support this
> application of PPPoE, think about the market for it. Who would want
> the capability to plug the router into a DSL modem and support NAT
> access for a LAN behind it?
>
> Not the DSL carriers, who are having significant financial problems
> as things stand. xDSL pricing tends to range from (lowest to
> highest):
>
> Single modem, ADSL, dynamic address. intended for single
> client ONLY.
> Single router, ADSL
> Single router, SDSL. This is what the carriers construe as
> "business grade" DSL. Where ADSL's bandwidth is asymmetrical and
> optimized for a client going outwards to the Internet, SDSL is more
> appropriate for server applications, and is generally more
> predictable with multiple devices.
>
> So, who is the market for Cisco implementing this feature? Surely
> not the carriers themselves. The carriers, indeed, are getting
> smarter and smarter about using statistics and filters to know when
> an ADSL subscriber is a single client, a group of clients, or one or
> more servers.
>
> Implementing this feature would alienate the DSL providers from
> Cisco. Sorry, individuals don't buy enough from Cisco to show up on
> its product radar screen. Even SOHO xDSL users aren't a large market.
>
> PPPoE has some legitimate applications, such as open access (although
> I have doubts about its scalability). But if I understand what the
> original poster wants the router to do, I see no incentive for Cisco
> to do it, and indeed incentives for Cisco to prevent it.
>
>
> >I guess all we can do is hope for PPPOE support in a future IOS. DSL is a
> >great (and cheap) solution for a SOHO or small branch office.
> Add a VPN and
> >you're set... but I would guess that until Cisco sees some of the current
> >solutions as a threat to their client base that nothing will be
> done. This
> >is not a slam on Cisco just how businesses think in general.
> >
> >Tim
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Rizzo Damian [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 8:59 PM
> >> To: 'Rahul Kachalia'; Timothy Metz; Rizzo Damian; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> Subject: RE: DSL internet with PPPoE
> >>
> >>
> >> I don't see how any of this will provide me with what I desire. I
> >> desire to
> >> plug my DSL modem directly into my router and use that
> router's address as
> >> the gateway for my LAN. There's no reason that with only ONE
> registered IP
> >> address that every PC in my LAN can't access the internet.
> There are many
> >> solutions for this, I would probably use PAT on the router for
> >> instance. The
> >> only thing that stands between me and my desire, is this
> friggin, useless,
> >> does nothing but supply accounting info to the ISP, waste of
> >> bandwidth of a
> >> protocol, PPPoE! Once you plug the Modem into the router, you
> somehow have
> >> to authenticate to the ISP PPPoE server with a name and password.
> >> I have not
> >> found a way to implement this yet. This make me mad!
> >>
> >> Thanks for the ideas...
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Rahul Kachalia [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 2:48 PM
> >> To: Timothy Metz; Rizzo Damian; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> Subject: Re: DSL internet with PPPoE
> >>
> >>
> >> Tim, PPPoE fundamentals are pretty much similar to PPP over
> WAN links but
> >> PPPoE breaks the boundary on router/modem & brings down to host
> >> level where
> >> PPP is initiated just like a router but instead of serial
> links they send
> >> PPP request over Ethernet frame which may add more Layer 2 frame as
> >> configured on router/modem towards dslcloud.
> >>
> >> If second PC need to connect to internet that PC too needs an internet
> >> account & PPPoE software in order to access else first PC can be
> >> multihomed
> >> & provide a gateway service to other host on LAN.
> >>
> >> thanks
> >> rahul.
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Timothy Metz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> To: "Rahul Kachalia" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Rizzo Damian"
> >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 11:34 AM
> >> Subject: RE: DSL internet with PPPoE
> > >
> >>
> >> > Yes, I think this would work but I don't see how a second
> PC could get
> >> > access to the internet unless it used the PC that initiated the
> >> connection
> >> > through the DSL modem as a gateway.
> >> >
> >> > Tim
> >> >
> >> > > -----Original Message-----
> >> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
> >> > > Rahul Kachalia
> >> > > Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 7:39 PM
> >> > > To: Rizzo Damian; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> > > Subject: Re: DSL internet with PPPoE
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Rizzo,
> >> > >
> >> > > I think its possible, following would be your topology
> >> > >
> >> > > LAN-----switch-----Ciscorouter-----eth-----dsl
> >> modem----------dsl cloud
> >> > > ( make sure you have to turn
> >> ON bridging
> >> on
> >> > > both
> >> > > ethernet interface of router )
> >> > >
> >> > > I am assuming you are using PPPoE client software on the PC.
> >> PPPoE send
> >> > > Ethernet broadcast which needs to reach to PPPoE server unless
> >> > > you dont turn
> >> > > bridging on at routers traffic wont pass & it will fail.
> >> > >
> >> > > thanks
> >> > > rahul.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > > From: "Rizzo Damian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> > > Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 7:22 AM
> >> > > Subject: DSL internet with PPPoE
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > > I have a home lab with a few routers and switches, I have a
> >> > > permanent DSL
> >> > > > connection but unfortunately they use PPPoE for
> authentication. Is
> >> there
> >> > > any
> >> > > > way possible I can use this connection with a Cisco Router???
> >> > > I'd like to
> >> > > > plug the modem into my router and then route traffic from
> >> > > there. But can't
> >> > > > seem to get past the PPPoE problem. Thanks for the help.
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Damian Rizzo
> >> > > > Senior IT Engineer
> >> > > > Marakon Associates
> >> > > > 203-978-6341
> >> > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> > > >
> >> > > > _________________________________
> >> > > > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info:
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> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> > > _________________________________
> >> > > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info:
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> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> >
> >> >
> >
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