Reply is inline.....
"Robert Padjen" wrote in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> My $.02.
>
> I have always been disenchanted with the
> certifications offered and I would like to believe
> that some others in the industry feel the same. This
> may be the case here.
IMHO, most of the people I know personally that are disenhanted with
certifications are that way because they didn't like the idea that someone
could, in a year or two of hard studying, learn as much about networking as
it took them 10 years to learn. I'm not knocking good old experience, and
I'm in the process of getting more and more experience everyday to truly
fill out my skillset with the knowledge of problems and issues that you
don't read about in textbooks. I realize the value of experience versus
book knowledge.
> Basically, look at the certification tests. Many are
> old, poorly written, irrelevant to production
> environments, simple (low percentage of redundancy or
> complex scenario questions) and an overall difficulty
> not related to technological issues but grammar,
> construct and marketing. As such, passing proves that
> you can do one thing - pass the test. It doesn't mean
> that you can troubleshoot, design, deploy or manage
> anything. Is Erlang-B important in routing and
> switching? Is knowing the port density on the Z series
> router valuable when the product was replaced two
> years ago?
I have to disagree to some of your points here. Some of the exams, have
dated information, but Cisco makes an effort to make sure the exams are
updated so that you're not dealing with totally antiquated technologies.
For instance, a friend who completed CCNP a year before I started the CCNP
2.0, said that his switching exam didn't cover any multicast or multilayer
switching. While going through the CCNP 2.0, my switching exam was filled
with multilayer switching and multicast/multicasting routing protocols,
which is STILL not being utilized in many environments because "it's too
new".
I will admit that many of the scenarios proposed in the exams are by no
means complex compared to real life situations.
However, what you're failing to recognize (or admit) is that passing the
exam proves more than you can pass an exam. If what you're saying were
true, no college degree would considered valid because college as a whole is
just a bunch of exams to pass. This logic escapes me. One thing that
passing exams gives you that even years of real world experience cannot is
the details and background to understand why things are the way they are.
Sure theory isn't always = real world, but it never is. I work with a
network engineer who has been such for FIVE YEARS. He was looking in a
router the other day and noticed some multicast traffic and said "We don't
run any multicast on our network...." and me, the "book learned green horn",
simply said "We're running EIGRP on our network, aren't we?" (which we
are). He didn't have a clue what I was implying. So I just left "the
engineer" to figure it out. The company I am with is a very large,
multinational, Cisco-only company with (literally) teams of (probably over
100) engineers that all have great experience, and hardly any of them is
certified. I don't have any disrespect for them because of that. However,
when someone with ZERO real-world experience, like me, can walk in on a
6-month contract armed with no more than a sharp mind and a CCNA (1/2 of the
CCNP finished =), make many suggestions and modifications to their network
that have had global impact and improved performance or solved long-time
problems, and have gained the respect of every engineer that works there,
that proves to me and should prove to everyone that attaining these
certifications is much more than proving you can pass exams.
My father-in-law once told me that "Sometimes 10 years experience isn't
always 10 years experience. It's the same 1 year of experience over and
over". There are sooo many people that learn just what they need to get by
and then "look down" at a hungry young go-getter that has certifications
because they feel that the youngster "surely can't know things that I don't
know", not realizing they know RIP inside and out, but are clueless about
OSPF, EIGRP, BGP, etc..... They understand setting up a VLAN perfectly, but
have no clue how to route between them. They understand HSRP, but have no
clue that the preempt delay is. There are a plethora of details that can be
gleaned from studying from certs that even years of experience sometimes
don't reveal.
> It's not sour grapes - I'm certified. But, its on the
> last page of my resume, and its not who I am. I'm me,
> and I happen to be certified. Its not I'm certified
> (along with X others) and I'm one of many.
>
> Also, I know a lot of people who will not disclose
> their certs, including CCIE, unless asked. It's being
> humble.
For me, being "green" in the field, I need my certs at the TOP of my resume.
But it gets attention and brings in job offers I wouldn't get otherwise.
Someday my experience will say enough, and that point I will either downplay
or not mention the certs. But not now.........
> I don't think that anyone is incapable of passing the
> X test/exam. Its a matter of time, money, pain and
> desire. A lot of great people in this industry are
> great because they are good - not because a test told
> the world that they were.
To to reiterate, I have plenty of respect for people in the field with years
of experience that have (or had) the desire to truly understand networking
on it's finest levels. I do not reserve such respect for those only with
certs. Matter of fact, I've ran into plenty of people with the certs that
seemed to have learned nothing. That's the way it is........
> --- Donald B Johnson jr
> wrote:
> > I don't agree, people who write technically, their
> > reputation is centered
> > around how accurate their writing is, and where
> > mistakes are made how
> > quickly they fix those errors. I don't see where
> > failing a test, would
> > invalidate anyone's writing or lessen their
> > reputation. The quoted
> > explanation may be true I am not disputing that, it
> > probably is a factor, I
> > just think it is unfounded.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Kevin Schwantz"
> > To:
> > Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 8:07 AM
> > Subject: Re: Is it really worth it? "CCIE" [7:5725]
> >
> >
> > > Did you know that many of the top Cisco engineers
> > are not CCIE qualified?
> > I
> > > have always wondered why people like Sam Halabi
> > and the likes do not get
> > > certified.A Cisco employee told me that these
> > people have everything to
> > lose
> > > and nothing to gain if they take the CCIE exam. If
> > they refrain from
> > taking
> > > the tests, their reputation stays intact. If they
> > take the test and fail,
> > > people will start to question their credibility.
> > >
> > > Kevin
> > >
> > > ""Morabito Joe"" wrote in message
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > I want to ask a question to those already CCIEs.
> > Is it really worth it?
> > > > Don't get me wrong, I love the work and the
> > learning. I actually plan
> > to
> > > > take the lab by july of next year, but how has
> > your life changed since
> > > > obtaining your ccie? Was it what you expected?
> > Better or worse?
> > > >
> > > > Please share your life experience after reaching
> > the big goal.
> > Personally
> > > I
> > > > can't wait to achieve CCIE status.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks.
> > > >
> > > > Joe Morabito
> > > > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info:
> > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html
> > > > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations
> > to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info:
> > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html
> > > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info:
> > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html
> > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> =====
> Robert Padjen
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
> http://auctions.yahoo.com/
Message Posted at:
http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=6690&t=5725
--------------------------------------------------
FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html
Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
