Why Robert you have such a low opinion of a person you don't even know,
trust me I'm much more pig-headed in real life. My response is in your inbox
at work. Yes I did study the page you posted and now everything has become
clear. But you really must have pity on me you see. I was so uneducated as
to your purposes now I see that without your insight, calm humility,
fairness, and understanding I would forever been awash in a sea of Cisco
rah-rah happily sipping my kool-aid and toasting the gods in ignorance. Now
I see the light and have been saved! Once I thought that not a single
interface failure on any of my routers was a good thing, but now I see it's
only Cisco obsolescence. One I thought a huge market share was a great
thing, now I know its only the death rattle for Cisco. One I thought
understanding IOS was cool, now I know its unnecessary and obsolete. Thanks
Robert for your time and patience, would it be ok if I started a fan club?
Nortel forever,
Dan "Once an idiot but no more" Faulk
President of the We like Nortel and think Robert is just wonderful Fan Club
PS May I wash your car?
End of self-serving message
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
Robert Hanley
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2001 10:04 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: RANT Longish, Why Cisco and not ...!!! [7:19933]
Chuck & group;
So, all this is understood about certs & why, etc...; and anyone who has
participated in this list for any length of time has seen the same ground
covered as Chuck covered below. I've been following this list and
participating as time permitted since about June 1999. So I know the deal.
I will continue to seek Cisco certifications for two primary reasons:
1. I may need those credentials if I find myself back out in the larger job
market in the future. Especially as a consultant called on both to evaluate
existing networks and propose changes or upgrades be they piecemeal or
forklifted, but also to write, respond to and review responses to RFPs &
RFIs. All this with a view toward providing my client with an end result
that best meets their needs. Regardless of what the vendors are pushing.
2. It enhances my credibility in my current role as a Nortel SE with
customers when I need to critique Cisco's designs and or proposals, and my
ability to understand what they may propose, and why.
So there is more to this than knowing commands, though that may be critical
if one wants to stay strictly "hands on". There is much more to this
business, however; and I think studying the merits and weaknesses of
different vendors' gear helps to round us all out, and to provide solutions
to problems. Not just the Cisco way, or the Nortel way, or any one vendor's
way. But the way that provides the greatest value to our clients and
corporations.
If we work for Cisco, or Nortel, or any vendor; it gives us an opportunity
to understand our strengths and weaknesses and to provide feedback to the
people who develop products to make them better.
There is always room on this list for people who want to know how to solve a
work related problem, or to express political opinions as has been done this
past week. I think if people don't want to engage in this type of discussion
they should use the Delete Key, not the "this is a Cisco List" crutch;
thereby discouraging honest and constructive dialog. If you don't like it
don't participate, but don't keep other people from learning something.
There have also been occasions when people have asked for help interfacing
Nortel and Cisco gear when I have been happy to help and will certainly
continue to do so. No matter how misunderstood the gear or my intentions may
be.
But again, the only reason I gave the URL for the Nortel cert, was because
Dan Faulk asked for it. Not that he expected there was any possible answer
of any merit, or that he took a look. But maybe someone else did, and maybe
it will help them to advance their career.
Learning is the progressive discovery of our own ignorance.
That doesn't mean we want to find out how ignorant we are.
But it may mean that we need to.
Go in peace...and keep your head down.
"Chuck Larrieu" wrote in message ...
>If I may offer, when one reads the title of the certification most of us
>have or seek we should remember that it is Cisco certified. the emphasis is
>on Cisco. The whole purpose of vendor certification is to provide the
vendor
>with a large number of people familiar with their product. this gives
>potential customers more reason to commit to the vendor in question,
knowing
>they can easily find qualified people to service the equipment in question.
>
>Novell certifications served to show clients that if they committed to
>Netware, they would be able to hire people qualified to work on Netware
>networks. Microsoft certifications served to show customers the same thing.
>Sun has had a Solaris / UNIX certification program for years. These days
one
>can attain any number of vendor certifications.
>
>I don't think it hurts once in a while to discuss technology in general. To
>excel in this field one will need to know more than how to swap a few disks
>to install Win2K or Netware. One may need to know more than a few basic IOS
>commands.
>
>JMHO
>
>Chuck
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
>Robert Hanley
>Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2001 4:10 PM
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Re: RANT Longish, Why Cisco and not ...!!! [7:19933]
>
>
>I wasn't going to clutter up the list and waste B/w, but you asked me to
>enlighten you, and I guess the information should be available to all. Yes,
>I am responding using a different email address because its convenient; but
>I'm the same Robert Hanley.
>
>If you read the thread in context I responded to someone looking for
reasons
>why no one should buy anything but Cisco. If my attempt to add breadth to
>this persons understanding of the industry are lost on you that's
>unfortunate for you. There are no sour grapes here, but I am always amazed
>at the arrogant and dismissive attitudes I encounter whenever anything but
>Cisco cheerleading is expressed. I participate in the list to take Cisco
>exams too, which I am getting back to after being busy taking Nortel cert
>tests, which were a requirement for my commissions. They were very
>educational btw, and have helped me to understand many of the aspects of
>Cisco's certification process in a new light. If you are only interested in
>passing exams, and not in understanding the business you would participate
>in, you may want to re-examine your motives.
>
>A lab comprised of the gear I'm talking about costs millions of $ and yes
>there is a cert. It is indeed esteemed, but perhaps in different circles
>than you will find yourself. Oh well...
>
>http://www.nortelnetworks.com/servsup/certification/optical_cert/index.html
>
>The kind of change I'm talking about happens about every 10 years, even in
>this very fast moving business. The last time was when two college
>professors at Stanford wanted to make their department's computers talk
>together. But that's another story.
>
>Go in peace...and keep your head down.
>
>
>"Dan Faulk" wrote in message
>...
>> All this is very educational and almost useless to the task at hand. Many
>of
>> us are here to prepare ourselves for the toughest test we've ever taken
>> outside of marriage (I aint kidding folks), and have chosen this path for
>> several good reasons. None of which are related to the sour grapes
between
>> Cisco and Nortel, which BTW are no different than those between Microsoft
>> and IBM of several years ago.
>>
>> If Nortel is sponsoring an industry certification with near the
widespread
>> esteem of Cisco's CCIE please by all means tell us what we are missing. I
>> can put together a Nortel lab much cheaper than a Cisco one and am all
>> ears.....
>>
>> This industry has been in constant flux since day 0 and all the claims of
>> mine is bigger than yours doesn't matter one wit. Personally I think
>Nortel
>> makes a good product though not as good as Cisco's overall but that's
>IMHO.
>> If they have a lead in a up and coming market segment good for them, they
>> need it. But don't fool yourselves it wont last never has, never will and
>> Cisco in particular I'm sure keeps that in mind. Sorry for the OT its
been
>a
>> long week and it aint over yet as now I got to "try" and find a flight to
>> Houston.
>>
>> Give 'em hell Dubya
>> Dan
>> {only a Cisco stock holder since 2001, but I bought at 13 :)) }
Message Posted at:
http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=20105&t=19933
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