True, but in the short-run, it does the program and anybody who pursues it no favors. I think I can distill your arguement to basically, "...in the long run, the quality of the CCIE program will inevitably "out"'. My response is, like the economist John Maynard Keynes famously said: "...in the long run, we're all dead." It's all well and good to stick to the principle of saying that stupid HR people and hiring directors who don't understand the program aren't somebody you would want to work for anyway, but your principles don't exactly help you very much in paying the rent.
""Scott H."" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > If the HR people (or hiring manager) are that uninformed, as a CCIE, it > would not be a place I would want to work. People tend to flock to places > that they are valued the most. A company who doesn't understand the value > that a CCIE a brings to the table is not one that I would waste my precious > oxygen on. Let's be honest here, the vast majority of tech departments out > there have a good idea that the CCIE is not another MCSE. In my part of the > world, I have not run into a hiring manager yet that doesn't understand the > value of a CCIE. > > You know da*n well that guy has no chance of ever passing the lab exam. > That is the beauty of the program, he can talk all he wants but he will > never be able to join the club. With the recent changes Cisco has made to > the exam format, their are no "fluff" points left. There isn't a class you > can take out there that will get you through the exam. No shortcuts, no > braindumps, no cheating. I for one like the odds of keeping people like him > on the sidelines. > > > ""nrf"" wrote in message > [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > You say that guys like this have no connection to me. Boy, I wish that > were > > true. If it were, I really would be able to mind my own business. > > > > Let's presume that I am a CCIE (I may or may not be). The connection is > > simply this. HR people and other people in charge of hiring will read or > > hear comments like what was stated by that guy. They will then conclude > > that maybe the certification isn't particularly valuable at all. > > Therefore the kind of 'trash-talk' these lab-rats (or even wanna-be > > lab-rats) engage in has a negative effect on the perception of the cert. > > For example, a hiring manager might see a comment like that and think, > well, > > this guy who just barely got into networking is talking so confidently > about > > being a CCIE in no time flat, which possibly means that the cert must not > be > > very hard, which therefore means that perhaps it's not as valuable as it > > seems, so why should I prefer such certified people when I look for an > > employee? > > > > As I'm sure you would agree, perception is often stronger than reality. > It > > doesn't really matter if you're good if nobody thinks you're good. If > > people in power start hearing enough of this kind of talk, then perception > > of the cert will inevitably start to change in a negative way. That, my > > friend, is the connection. It is an unfortunate reality of life that we > are > > judged based on the actions of our community. Call it > guilt-by-association, > > call it whatever you want. Just don't call it untrue. > > > > ""Scott H."" wrote in message > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > > Why does it always have to be a contest of who's is biggest? If this > guy > > > thinks he can pass the lab then by all means take the class and give the > > lab > > > a shot. I'm sure Cisco would be happy to collect the money from him > each > > > time he takes it. I guess what I'm trying to say here is take care of > > your > > > own business and don't let all the other crap get to you. People like > > this > > > just add to the statistics of mass failure. > > > > > > The real problem with this reasoning is that you end up lumping people > > into > > > the same category because they don't have 10 years of experience. Too > > many > > > times I have been told that my certs are only "paper" because I don't > have > > > this experience. My response is simple, "mind your own friggin > business." > > > Just because I don't have 10 years of experience doesn't mean I'm any > less > > > of a person. And guess what? Eventually I will have 10 years of > > experience > > > and people will still say I don't "really" know what I'm doing. > > > > > > By the way, would your quest for the holy grail really happen if you > were > > > only gonna make $15/hr? I don't think so. > > > > > > ""nrf"" wrote in message > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > > > That's an excellent way to sum it up. Too much has been written about > > the > > > > value (or non-value) of the CCIE, or any cert for that matter. What > > > > everybody should instead be aiming for is real knowledge. If a cert > > helps > > > > you acquire this knowledge, then so be it. But the cert is by no > means > > > the > > > > end of the road. It is the extreme idea held by certain people who > > > think > > > > that all they have to do is pass the lab and money will automatically > > fall > > > > out of the sky that I object to. > > > > > > > > For example, here is one particular post from another message board > that > > I > > > > participate in. > > > > > > > > "I passes [sic] my CCNA few months ago. It was an OK test, but I > almost > > > > failed it. I was planning on taking my CCNP and CCIE, but I didnt > think > > I > > > > could do it. So I decided to look for a training course. Anyway, > people > > > that > > > > are trying to pass CCIE or are planning on taking CCIE, I wan't to let > > you > > > > guys know that I found a great school for Cisco training. It is called > > > [name > > > > deleted]...Wahoo, soon I will pass my CCIE and will be making over > 100K" > > > > > > > > Lest anybody thinks I am making this quote up, you can email me > > privately > > > > and I will give you the exact message board where you can find this. > A > > > guy > > > > who barely passed the CCNA and now wants to ge the CCIE so that he can > > > make > > > > a high salary - needless to say, it is this kind of attitude that > gives > > > the > > > > lab-rat such a bad name. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=45046&t=45001 -------------------------------------------------- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
