I've had those before...once!  Not very good.  Would not want to build a
network on them.

""Logan, Harold""  wrote in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
I think your problem with the dipping dots analogy is that dipping dots have
to be served from the bottom up; there's no such thing as Top-Down Dipping
Dot Design.

Hal

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Priscilla Oppenheimer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 2:39 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: CCIE Lab - I have seen he future and it is.... [7:62776]
>
>
> Glad you're not depressed and are continuing your quest. You
> should consider
> being a writer. Your writing is really good, although the
> dipping dots ice
> cream analogy is just not working for me. I just can't
> imagine freeze-dried
> ice cream for one thing. Does it use dotted-decimal notation? ;-)
>
> Priscilla
>
> Charles Riley wrote:
> >
> > Thanks to all who wrote in.  My Kafkaseque post yesterday
> > apparently touched
> > a chord (or nerve) with several folks.  I was hoping to start
> > an OT
> > discussion on those Dippin' Dots ice cream, and draw analogies
> > to
> > networking.  Heck, I would even settle for Howard asking a
> > variation of his
> > favorite question:  "what is the ice cream you are trying to
> > eat?"
> >
> > In all seriousness, I haven't abandoned all hope yet, it has
> > just lessened
> > in importance and intensity for me. In response to CN's
> > question,  I have
> > attempted the lab at least once, Brussels, way back when the
> > lab was a two
> > day lab, and the numbers were still quad digits.Without
> > violating the NDA,
> > let's just say that  I will never forgive ISDN for what it did
> > to me.
> >
> > As far as my motives for CCIE chasing, the main reason I am
> > persisting is
> > that not only have I invested time, money, and freeze dried ice
> > cream, but
> > the CCIE quest motivates me to study topics that I don't
> > necessarily deal
> > with on a daily basis, and to practice exotic configurations
> > with those that
> > I do.  OSPF through a GRE tunnel over an ISDN DBU to the
> > Dippin' Dots
> > website, anyone?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Charles
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ""Cisco Nuts""  wrote in message
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > Hello Charles,
> > >
> > > With due respect I ask, why did you abandon your quest for
> > the CCIE? I am
> > > curious as to how many times you actually hit the Lab?
> > >
> > > Sincerely,
> > >
> > > CN
> > >
> > > >From: "Charles Riley" >Reply-To: "Charles Riley" >To:
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: CCIE Lab - I have seen he
> > future and
> > > it is.... [7:62776] >Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 22:19:54 GMT >
> > >Chuck, >
> > > >Your post reminds me of those weird little ice cream stands
> > that I
> > > sometimes >see at the mall and various carnivals. It's called
> > something
> > > like "Dipping >Dots - The Ice Cream of the Future". The
> > initial human
> > > instinct is much >like the Cro-Magnon humanoids encountering
> > the monolith
> > > at the beginning of >2001: A Space Odyssey (sp): jump up and
> > down with
> > > excitement until you >realize it's just freeze dried ice
> > cream. >
> > > >Rounding out that analogy, the CCIE of the future will
> > probably be
> > > reduced >to being the CCNP of today. Regardless, I have spent
> > too much
> > > time and >money to abandon the quest for CCIE now, but
> > frankly, if I
> > > hadn't invested >as much as I have, I would most likely
> > abandon the quest
> > > in favor of >broadening into other areas. I really don't see
> > much market
> > > value for the >CCIE anymore, especially with Cisco hellbent
> > on making it
> > > a meatgrinding >cash cow. Your java console and "one way only
> > to
> > > configure" experience kind >of bears this out. > >Sorry for
> > the
> > > depressing post, just wanted to share. > >Charles > > > > >
> > >""The Long
> > > and Winding Road"" wrote in >message
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > Been
> > spending this
> > > weekend on what was once the Cisco Advanced SE Training > > (
> > ASET ) set
> > > of labs. These are available for those whose Cisco account
> > >team > >
> > > approves - there are a few conditions which can be found in
> > the wee
> > > places > > of certification training. > > > > The program is
> > run by Lab
> > > Gear ( the only link I have is www.labgear.net, > > but > >
> > this is a
> > > login page ) There are a number of labs of CCIE level, look,
> > and > >
> > > feel. > > > > Supposed to be real equipment, but the access
> > is via java
> > > script windows, > > not terminal emulation. This makes for
> > some
> > > interesting situations. The > > windows show or provide
> > output only when
> > > they are active. So if you had >two > > router sessions open,
> > and you
> > > made changes on one router that would >generate > > systems
> > messages of
> > > one sort or another you would not see those messages >on > >
> > the other.
> > > also, I have yet to find a way to generate output from
> > >debugging > >
> > > commands. Things like term mon and logging of one kind or
> > another have
> > > not > > been successful. so no debug ip routing and debug ip
> > ospf adj. >
> > > > > > As with the real lab, there are a series of tasks to be
> > completed.
> > > Grading > > is done via a script. This is the point of most
> > interest.
> > > Actually, I > > suspect a lot of the current CCIE Lab grading
> > is done
> > > using scripting >tools. > > I believe the proctors still
> > physically
> > > examine equipment configurations >for > > some things, but I
> > could be
> > > wrong. > > > > It is of interest because to judge from the
> > script outputs
> > > I am seeing, > > there appears to be an assumption that there
> > is one and
> > > only one way to do > > things. I'm not sure this is always
> > true. I am not
> > > sure that this results >in > > an entirely accurate grade. >
> > > > > But
> > > more importantly, given my experience with the java consoles
> > and the > >
> > > manner in which these labs must be done, I am not sure I like
> > where this
> > > >is > > headed. Something Brian Dennis and Brad Ellis and
> > some other
> > > people >started > > talking about back when the CCIE Lab went
> > from two
> > > days to one - something > > about the longer term goal being
> > to do the
> > > test remotely, and having >people > > show up at Sylvan or
> > some other
> > > testing center and log in remotely. > > > > If the Lab Gear
> > approach is
> > > any indication, this is not ready for real >live > > testing.
> > I
> > > experienced far too many problems with terminal ( javascript
> > ) > >
> > > sessions disconnecting mysteriously. With 8 open windows, it
> > sometimes
> > > got > > to be very hard to find the session ( router ) I was
> > looking for.
> > > Cut and > > paste is a real pain. You have to open a
> > "scratchpad" window,
> > > which is > > associated with the javascript console window.
> > cutting and
> > > pasting is done > > to this wind. there are scratchpad
> > windows associated
> > > with each java wind, > > so if you had a scratchpad open for
> > every router
> > > session, that makes for a > > LOT of junk to fight your way
> > through
> > > looking for what you want. then >there > > is the problem of
> > actually
> > > moving what you want to copy and paste. >highlight > > and
> > control c
> > > control v or alt e paste don't work. you have to click on > >
> > buttons on
> > > the java consoles to copy to and from routers. > > > > beyond
> > that, there
> > > is the problems of whether or not the "script" answer >is > >
> > the right
> > > answer. For example, in one lab, a particular instruction
> > >requires > >
> > > that the rip routers on a particular segment have to use the
> > neighbor > >
> > > statement to see eachother ( and prevent other routers on
> > that segment
> > > >from > > joining into the RIP domain ) well, the problem is,
> > one of
> > > those routers >is > > connected to another RIP router via a
> > different
> > > interface. need a neighbor > > statement there too, but the
> > script does
> > > not cover this, nor does the >answer > > configuration show
> > this. > > > >
> > > anyway, I have seen the future, and the CCIE Lab future looks
> > like it may
> > > >be > > heading to these kinds of remote lab settings. > > >
> > > -- > >
> > > TANSTAAFL > > "there ain't no such thing as a free lunch" > >
> > > >
> > > misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------
> > >
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