Hi,
Thanks for your mail which is very helpful.
Mark Wielaard wrote:
Hi Philippe,
Please try to keep the lists on topic. And please keep runtime specific
stuff on the specific runtime lists. Don't cross-post unnecessary
(others have also done that, it is not just you). People please keep
non-classpath specific stuff off the GNU Classpath developers list. GCJ,
kaffe, jamvm, sablevm, etc. all have their own mailinglists. When
appropriate move the discussion to one of those.
GNU Classpath is a bit of a "neutral zone". We do all meet here, but we
try to focus on the technical issues that are cross-runtime, compiler,
execution-environment, platform, etc. And we do try to help each other
solving technical issues in a way that is as efficient as possible
across platforms. Sure GNU Classpath is part of "the GNU solution" and
obviously GCC/GCJ is a big part of that. But we explicitly work together
with all the other environments. We organize meetings with all the other
projects (like you saw during Fosdem). And we learn from each other. It
isn't a place to criticize or question people or projects on the why or
how they run projects their own GNU Classpath based projects.
I do appreciate your enthusiasm and I am glad I saw some technical stuff
about getting the gtk+ awt peers better on the maemo platform. That is
what we want to see here!
So you will admit that what people want to discuss on which list is not
crystal clear?
So I did my homework: I posted the issue to GNU/FSF lists.
I don't have the time to go around and check old information and then
ask if it's current.
Please do your homework. Other people spend time and energy trying to
answer questions for you. I am sure not everything is always documented
fully and if so please do ask. But please do read a bit more about the
projects you are asking questions about before firing off lots
questions to this list that could have been resolved by either reading a
bit more about the other projects or that could have been asked on a
specific other project list.
I trigger issues that you need to resolve. I think I'm doing quite some
amount of work myself with all these emails...I find this method more
productive for all.
I don't agree with you here. I don't think I've asked much obvious Q&A.
Now, where are you guys coordinating a free embedded Java strategy?
There isn't 1 free embedded "Java" strategy. And from your postings I am
not clear which "embedded" strategy you are looking for.
- If it is finding a free J2ME counterpart to GNU Classpath please look
in the archives and talk to the people working on that:
http://www.spindazzle.org/green/index.php?p=67
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/classpath/2005-11/msg00037.html
Thanks for the help. I can't say more for now, but I can assure I'm
getting ready to contribute something valuable.
Really, it's not like I want to keep you guys in the dark forever...
- If it is finding a really small runtime then go look at jamvm.
Well in my original post I reported building SableVM down to 215K with
the new refactoring. So, when you take classpath into account, the
difference with JamVM is insignificant.
You met Robert at Fosdem so just send him an email with how you would
like to work together.
If you look at the recent posts on the Jam list you should get the
impression Robert and I are doing fine...
- If it is finding a free WinCE supported environment talk to either the
MySaifu developers, the IKVM developers to see if they have a WinCE
port (if dotgnu/mono is supported on that), the Kaffe developers
wanting to import the old WinCE port or the gcj port (WinCE is not
something a lot of people concentrate on since as far as I know it
isn't a free platform, but I am sure there are a lot of supporting
companies that will be happy to get GCJ fully working for you on it).
Thanks!
I don't want someone to do for me, I want to do it myself...
Java is about making the OS irrelevant, so I think porting to CE goes
along that.
- If it is finding how to best support maemo then talk to the various
GNU/Linux distributors that most closely mimic maemo. They probably
use GNU/GCC/GTK+/Gnome as environment for most programs, so talk to
them to see how gcj, java-gnome, etc fit in there. This is probably
the area were there is the most interest since lots of people already
work on a GNU/Linux platform with gtk+ so this is the most attractive
option to get the broadest support.
Thanks!
It seems to be going well on the maemo list, but yeah, nice to have
backups :-)
On the GNU Classpath mailinglist we coordinate how best to support all
the various environments build on top of GNU Classpath. If your talks
with the people/projects above lead to some interesting technical issues
on how we can improve GNU Classpath to better support such environments
then please do contact us again and we will try to help. But please
experiment a bit first and make sure you have enough experience with the
various projects to focus on technical details.
I'm doing exactly this, my own way I guess. I'm in a hurry though,
sorry. I hope in the end you will find all this was productive.
How do you defend people wasting their energy on [Project X], while there is
not a bit of anything in it that is unique.
Now this is completely inappropriate for this list. And I even doubt it
would be appreciated on the Project X mailinglist.
You're right. In fact Project X is the only one I have some kind of
emotional attachment to at this point.
Best Regards,
Philippe
