On 12/19/2010 10:53 PM, Ken Wesson wrote:
On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 10:33 PM, Tim Daly<d...@axiom-developer.org> wrote:
On 12/19/2010 10:21 PM, Ken Wesson wrote:
On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 9:42 PM, Tim Daly<d...@axiom-developer.org>
wrote:
On 12/19/2010 9:24 PM, Ken Wesson wrote:
On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 8:25 PM, Tim Daly<d...@axiom-developer.org>
wrote:
On 12/19/2010 8:20 PM, Ken Wesson wrote:
On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 8:18 PM, Tim Daly<d...@axiom-developer.org>
wrote:
I didn't mean to imply that other people
don't have the "ah-hah!" experience with
other languages. However, I have only had
the (before lisp)|(after lisp) experience
with lisp.
Your enlightenment might vary.
Rich gave his "Whitehead" talk and brought
up the fact that OO languages get several
things wrong.
Out of curiosity, which "several things" were these?
http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Are-We-There-Yet-Rich-Hickey
"Please install Flash Player".
Has everyone on this list developed a sudden allergy to plain text and
HTML? First I get pointed to a 34-minute video, and now this. A simple
bulleted list with a brief precis about each item would have sufficed;
a multi-megabyte install of an executable and who knows how much
futzing around, overkill.
The points made by Rich in the video require context.
Besides, the only way I could make a bullet list would
be to listen to the video again. My memory is hopelessly
lossy.
Exactly why text is preferable to video for stuff that can be
expressed in text. Your memory wouldn't matter -- you could link to
the text. And Google could search inside it.
Ah. So, like the confused situations you get with Java's mutable
collections. Two lists are equal if they have the same contents in the
same order -- but then you use one as a key in a hashmap, and then add
an item to it, and boom! Clojure separates this stuff out because the
Clojure vector's immutability makes its value stable given its
identity. Refs and atoms and agents can encapsulate mutable state, but
their identity (as defined by = and hash) is fixed rather than
changing with its state. And some objects (keywords and symbols) exist
to be almost pure identity, used to label other things.
Something like that?
Ummm. no. You're approaching the question in an OO mindset.
There is no path from that starting point to Rich's insight.
Rich spent the better part of an hour trying to explain the
insights that he got from what must certainly be months of
reading and thinking. I'm part way through the Whitehead
book he mentioned (and the other book is on-order). That's
some heavy reading he's been doing. I also downloaded the
primary paper on Multiversion Concurrency Control.
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.103.5778&rep=rep1&type=pdf
And, no, I don't plan to summarize Whitehead or the MVCC paper :-)
@mike, Yes, a video isn't "documentation". But the MVCC paper
certainly is. Open source software doesn't seem to "do" documentation
(which annoys me also since I'm a literate programming fanatic).
Tim Daly
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