Looking at it again, we don't even need an explicit :require anymore: (ns one.fresh-server "optional doc string goes here" [clojure.core :refer-except [ancestors printf]] [core.matrix :refer :all] [ring.adapter.jetty :refer [run-jetty]] [ring.middleware.file :refer [wrap-file]] [ring.middleware.file-info :refer [wrap-file-info]] [ring.middleware.stacktrace :refer [wrap-stacktrace]] [ring.util.response :refer [file-response]] [one.reload :as-ns] [one.middleware :as-ns] [net.cgrand.enlive-html :as html] [org.apache.maven.artifact.resolver.ArtifactResolver :as-class] [java.io.File :as-class])
- Greg -- Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA. On Aug 5, 2013, at 12:10 PM, Greg <g...@kinostudios.com> wrote: > * That email was just an idea to explore, not perfection. > > Also, this is a mistake: > > (:require [clojure.core :refer [ancestors printf]] > > Should read something like: > > (:require [clojure.core :refer-except [ancestors printf]] > > - Greg > > -- > Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing > with the NSA. > > On Aug 5, 2013, at 12:00 PM, Greg <g...@kinostudios.com> wrote: > >> This email contains a proposal for a way to get rid of at-least the >> following forms from the (ns) declaration: >> >> - :refer-clojure >> - :use >> - :import >> >> See below... >> >>> The namespace declaration is too complex. The existence of ":use" is not >>> what causes this. >> >> >> I agree that it is not the *sole* cause, but I do believe that it is a >> significant part of the problem. >> >>> can you please therefore explain why you think a breaking change >>> to ns is a good thing to remove something that we are still going to be >>> able to do, but in a more verbose way. >> >> The 'ns' declaration is complex because there are too many ways to do >> essentially the same thing. "use" is one of those ways that is completely >> unnecessary and creates unnecessary complexity. >> >> Clojure's documentation also contributes to this problem, but in some ways >> it's a victim of the poor design of the 'ns' declaration. Just look at this >> monster: >> >> user=> (doc ns) >> ------------------------- >> clojure.core/ns >> ([name docstring? attr-map? references*]) >> Macro >> Sets *ns* to the namespace named by name (unevaluated), creating it >> if needed. references can be zero or more of: (:refer-clojure ...) >> (:require ...) (:use ...) (:import ...) (:load ...) (:gen-class) >> with the syntax of refer-clojure/require/use/import/load/gen-class >> respectively, except the arguments are unevaluated and need not be >> quoted. (:gen-class ...), when supplied, defaults to :name >> corresponding to the ns name, :main true, :impl-ns same as ns, and >> :init-impl-ns true. All options of gen-class are >> supported. The :gen-class directive is ignored when not >> compiling. If :gen-class is not supplied, when compiled only an >> nsname__init.class will be generated. If :refer-clojure is not used, a >> default (refer 'clojure) is used. Use of ns is preferred to >> individual calls to in-ns/require/use/import: >> >> (ns foo.bar >> (:refer-clojure :exclude [ancestors printf]) >> (:require (clojure.contrib sql combinatorics)) >> (:use (my.lib this that)) >> (:import (java.util Date Timer Random) >> (java.sql Connection Statement))) >> >> >> The above does not explain completely how to use 'ns'. You have to read the >> documentation for the syntax of all of the other forms its supports. >> >> Deprecating :use would be a significant step in reducing the complexity of >> the 'ns' declaration, and improving the readability of Clojure's code. It >> would be one less piece to the monster. >> >> There's a great quote by I don't remember who (Apple-related?), that to >> create something truly great, you have to keep removing all the unnecessary >> bits till there's nothing unnecessary left to remove. Something like that >> (if anyone knows the quote I'm talking about, please share). >> >> This complexity isn't necessary. >> >> Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I don't see why with a little bit of compiler >> intelligence, we can't convert this: >> >> (ns one.fresh-server >> (:refer-clojure :exclude [ancestors printf]) >> (:use core.matrix >> [ring.adapter.jetty :only (run-jetty)] >> [ring.middleware.file :only (wrap-file)] >> [ring.middleware.file-info :only (wrap-file-info)] >> [ring.middleware.stacktrace :only (wrap-stacktrace)] >> [ring.util.response :only (file-response)]) >> (:require [one.reload :as reload] >> [one.middleware :as middleware] >> [net.cgrand.enlive-html :as html]) >> (:import (org.apache.maven.artifact.resolver ArtifactResolver) >> (java.io File)))) >> >> Into this: >> >> (ns one.fresh-server >> (:require [clojure.core :refer [ancestors printf]] >> [core.matrix :refer :all] >> [ring.adapter.jetty :refer [run-jetty]] >> [ring.middleware.file :refer [wrap-file]] >> [ring.middleware.file-info :refer [wrap-file-info]] >> [ring.middleware.stacktrace :refer [wrap-stacktrace]] >> [ring.util.response :refer [file-response]] >> [one.reload :as-ns] >> [one.middleware :as-ns] >> [net.cgrand.enlive-html :as html] >> [org.apache.maven.artifact.resolver.ArtifactResolver :as-class] >> [java.io.File :as-class])) >> >> Ta da! >> >> There we've removed the unnecessary :use, :import, and :refer-clojure forms, >> and added :as-ns and :as-class shortcuts. Require now supports both Java >> Classes and Clojure Namespaces. >> >> We've removed practically all the complexity! The only complexity remaining >> are the keyword-options to available in the :require clauses, but we already >> had those before. >> >>> Please also explain at the same time, why (use 'core.matrix) remains >>> clear and why this should not change to "(require 'core.matrix :refer >>> :all)". >> >> I must have missed this part of the thread. I did not say it shouldn't maybe >> someone else did. I'm for deprecating "use" completely, while retaining its >> abilities through "require". >> >> - Greg >> >> -- >> Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing >> with the NSA. >> >> On Aug 5, 2013, at 10:52 AM, Phillip Lord <phillip.l...@newcastle.ac.uk> >> wrote: >> >>> Greg <g...@kinostudios.com> writes: >>>>> It's pretty ugly to use aliases for numerical code, e.g. with >>>>> core.matrix, e.g. >>>> >>>> Agreed. It's nice that :require :refer :all is available for such >>>> instances, isn't it? >>> >>> Which leads to the crux of the question. >>> >>> Given that the functionality is there, and that you agree that it is >>> useful, can you please therefore explain why you think a breaking change >>> to ns is a good thing to remove something that we are still going to be >>> able to do, but in a more verbose way. >>> >>> Please also explain at the same time, why (use 'core.matrix) remains >>> clear and why this should not change to "(require 'core.matrix :refer >>> :all)". >>> >>> >>> The namespace declaration is too complex. The existence of ":use" is not >>> what causes this. >>> >>> Phil >>> >>> -- >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Clojure" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com >>> Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with >>> your first post. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Clojure" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> >>> >> >
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