Steve: Thanks for catching that............actually I plead to being age-related mathematically challenged...........
Probably a result of trying to rationalize the actual amount of money I've spent in the last 12 years on my boat..........only to find the insurance company decreasing my value for the next 5 years and putting the whole project completely underwater... But the "to-do" list goes on and I just love this boat........... Best, Ron -----Original Message----- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Steve Thomas Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2013 7:33 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Current C&C History; now a Dose of reality !!!! I agree with a lot of what you say, but you should check your arithmetic. Your boat is younger than you think. Steve. -----Original Message----- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Ron Casciato Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2013 7:23 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Current C&C History; now a Dose of reality !!!! To the group... Just some thoughts to bring the conversation down to today's reality check.......... I would advance that most of the listers in this group who own C&C boats actually own boats older than 1990...........Maybe a few in the early 90's......... virtually none of us own anything that competes with new models of racer cruiser boats today. I own one of the Bruckman C&C's built in 1977. It's a 38MKIIC and was built as a custom boat for someone in Chicago to race in the Mac races.......... I have completely refinished her to better than new condition and we race her weekly in the local PHRF series. That makes her over 46 years old and I wouldn't give her up for any amount. And yes, I would love to see those lines continued in to the future, it's a great boat, but the reality is that you can't make a current business on those older boat's designs........ I admire Will's courage and intent on keeping the "marque" but really, not one of us is a potential customer of the new boats of any brand in today's market at today's new boat prices.......Incidentally, most of us are too old to think about making that kind of investment in a new 30' or 40' boat. I'm sure that Will gets it, he needs to create a boat that sells into today's active sailor market, and that ain't many of us by comparison. Today's cruising/ racing families are choosing between newer designs and trying to compete with the J 105 ........which I can't even touch given my generous handicap. We all purchased our boats at a different time and place in our lives.........those choices are still great ones, but given the "disposable income" of many newer sailboat types, I applaud Will and his group for giving it a try...... Sort of like the new "Cris Craft" power boats...........they are still being made, but not in the old style and function. The market is smaller than it was for either type of boat and a new venture needs to pick a segment that contains enough potential customers so it can survive.... What each of us needs to do is sail for a day on one of the late model Jeauneau's, Beneteau's or for the purist's out there a new Sabre.......priced one of them lately..... You would trade your old C&C sailing characteristics and accommodations in a minute if it weren't for the price of that experience... Folks without the old time C&C experience don't have the history to fall back on for rationalization......... So my hat's off to Will and the New C&C group..........I like the new designs, but I'm one of the old C&C'ers..........and I understand that I'm not in your new target market. My very best Wishes.......... Ron Casciato IMPROMPTU C&C 38MKIIC, #125, '77 -----Original Message----- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Will Harris Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2013 3:12 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Current C&C History Hi Group, I thought maybe I'd chime in on this C&C history thread. Dunes and I both go way, way back with C&C. We grew up in and around Youngstown which is right across the river from Niagara-on-the-Lake. Our clubs are almost like one club, divided by a border. We grew up racing and sailing with and against the Hinterhollers, Brimsmeads and all the C&C guys. My personal history actually pre-dates C&C by a fair bit. When we bought our Shark, George didn't have an office per se, you went and had dinner with the Hinterhoellers. Our families used to meet up for a few days most summers cruising our Sharks in the Thousand Islands. Richard and I were about the same age and Barbara and my sister were about the same age. Gabrielle was practically a grown-up.. she was probably 12 when I was 9... Long story short, I knew George and his family and I'm pretty sure he would approve of the 30! Two main reasons: First, it is really easy to forget just how radical the Shark was in the day. Now, we're pretty used to 24 foot boats planing.... in 1962 that just did not happen...except for Sharks! Second- George is also pretty famous for telling a client who wanted standing headroom in a 30 footer, "It is better to cut off your legs". He was a no BS kinda guy. I follow this list and it's pretty fun. Sometimes I think that ya'll forget that the C&Cs that are now serving as great cruising boats we NOT cruising boats when they were new. C&C's bread and butter was performance boats. They would go and win the SORC, They would build the Canadian Admiral's Cup team and the string of Canada's Cup boats they did were freaking amazing. People would buy the production boats and go race them IOR, or in Ton classes. They were hot boats! Our Redline 41 is very true to the spirit of her ancestor. I grew up racing on the mighty Pivot III, one of the original Redlines. I still see her every week when I go Mumm30 sailing. They Awlgripped her ( still red ) and removed the pulpits and lifelines. She looks awesome, kinda metre boatish, very, very classic. That was a boat that won the SORC over-all. ( Not Pivot, Condor). Also, she was the first boat to really carry the C&C flag. (the boat company, not the design office) At this point in her life, she's a cruiser, but when she was new, she was as crazy racy as a HPR boat is now. As far as our Redline looking like a MIlls boat.... she IS a Mills boat! I would think that the C&C list more than anyone would understand that designers develop a look! Go to Andy's office and if you can't pick out the C&C models hanging on his wall, you need to turn in your C&C guy card! The Redline is going to be great for people who still want what C&C used to offer, a world-class race boat with a yacht quality interior. You can race her, cruise her and entertain your friends aboard her. There are a few different interiors to choose from and some of the boats will be racier and others cruisier. There is a shallower draft option, but it will still draw a couple inches more than Andy's C&C 40. But just a couple. If i know Andy, a 6 inch difference in draft would not change his thinking on where he could go and where he couldn't go! Modern is not all bad. The new Redline is going to be MUCH easier for a husband and wife team to actually sail than ANY previous C&C biggish boat. Non overlapping jib, main halyard to a powered winch and a top down furler on a sprit-flown genniker will make this a boat you will sail more and motor less. On to the 30.. Back in the day, the 30 probably would have come from the Custom Shop. They did a bunch of pretty 'out there' boats. They had the advantage of having ton classes to race in. Say what you like about IOR, but it DID make it pretty easy to build race boats have some boats to race against. Today, the goal pretty much has to be one-design. We don't have a Half-Ton Cup to go win. ( although, this boat will be about as fast as 2 tonners used to be!) The pure C&C race boats of the past; Magistri, Evergreen, Spirit ( C&C 38 one-tonner) or the half tonners, didn't pretend to be cruisers either! The 30 is NOT a sportsboat. It is conceived as an entry-level grand prix boat. You can race the short and medium distance races on her, smoke your Wednesday night fleet and just have a blast. Someone compared it to the MummFarr 30 and you nailed it. We are the builder for the Farr30 and in my opinion, it is the best sailboat ever. She was the entry level grand-prix boat of 1996. It's almost 2014 and time for a new best boat ever. I really do think that George H would heartily approve of the 30! He and my Dad are probably up on Fiddler's Green boasting about how they'd cruise that thing.... ( they would too, but they were slightly nuts) Someone else thought that the C&C30 was too racy for their needs and was considering an Alerion 28. Excellent choice! We build those too. There are sooooo many C&Cs and soooo many different owners that it is going to be hard to match up with what C&C means to all of you! Our plan is to take the essence of what made C&C great and carry it forward. We grew up with the brand and the people who created the brand were some of our childhood heroes. We could have named our new line of performance racers and racer cruisers anything we wanted. It was a ton of extra work and money to be able to carry on the C&C name and tradition, but we felt it was worth it. Why? Because that history means a lot to us. Will PS - Somebody doesn't like the new logo?!?!? Really. Come on....the flag is flying again! PSS - I don't care how depressed you get, we are NOT bringing back the aluminum toerails. Hiking on them for my entire childhood stunted my growth! -- Will Harris Waterline Systems 716-531-6088 _______________________________________________ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com _______________________________________________ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com _______________________________________________ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com _______________________________________________ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
