Aaron, 

When you get a new main, you won't believe what a different boat she is! 
I'm sure someone has said it here already, but you need a bit of weather helm. For steering feel - Lee helm feels like the boat is out of control and to help the keel counteract leeway when going upwind. But we're talking 4 or 5 degrees. (That's rudder angle not wheel angle- not sure if you have a wheel or a tiller. Much more than that and drag starts to become an issue. 
Too much heel also ramps up drag. It might seem fast with the rail in the water, but your wife has it right. Most boats have a "sweet spot " some where around 15 to 20 deg. Some a lot less. 

Keep taking the tablets, 
Sam :-)
C&C 26 Liquorice 
Ghost Lake Alberta 


From: Aaron Rouhi
Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2013 8:33 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Reply To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List 30 MKI weather helm

I won't even come close to have as much experience as many of you guys here but I still remember to loosen the topping lift! ;)

I received a lot of great feedback here so here a bit more background on the weather helm situation:

My 30-1's weather helm is in no way a major issue. I guess it all comes back to my personal preference for less pressure on the helm. I also like to sail with least amount of heel possible especially when Admiral is onboard. Overtime, I have noticed that if I reef early and move the traveler to leeward, I can reduce both weather helm and heel angle tremendously. Without that, the boat has much more weather helm and heel but in no way she feels 'out of control' or un-manageable. It handles well in heavy conditions regardless. I haven't had the opportunity to sail on any other 30-1s so I have no point of reference. Comparing it to my friend's 35-2, I feel more pressure at my helm so I always try to match that boat's feel since it's the only other classic C&C I have been sailing. That might be contributing to my perception...

As far as the mast's rake, I used to have about 3" around two years ago (I measured it by hanging a very heavy plum bob from my main halyard on a super calm day).  Around that time, my mast step was giving up because of the infamous plywood stringers. When I rebuilt it and stepped the mast again, I decided to rake it a bit forward (about an inch). This didn't make much of a difference in reducing the helm pressure and I didn't restore it back mainly due to laziness!

At the end, I think you guys have found the issue: I have a baggy mail. It's an old sail and I'm trying to get every last penny out of it before ordering a new one. I have been using the Cunningham to move the draft forward and I thought it's making a difference but never realize how much of a major factor a baggy main could be. I purchased a new 135 jib early this season from Quantum and I'm very happy with it. I will budget a new main for next season and restore the rake back to the official specs (6" to 8"). Hope that will make a difference.

Thanks again for all your notes and great suggestions as always...

Cheers,
Aaron R.
Admiral Maggie,
1979 C&C 30 MK1 #540
Annapolis, MD



Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 22:07:20 -0800
From: paradigmat...@gmail.com
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List 30 MKI weather helm

Although I hate to mention it, I have seen people having a huge amount of trouble with weather helm because their boom was held on center by a backstay-mounted topping lift, amongst other things.
To the original poster: I don't mean to sound out of line here, but have you had an experienced sailor out with you to give you some feedback on your setup?


On 29 November 2013 12:21, Andrew Burton <a.burton.sai...@gmail.com> wrote:
Good point about sails changing the feel, Gary. A blown out main or jib, with the max draft at the battens will move the apparent center of effort way aft.
On the other hand, my crew is so tough, they don't even know how to reef!

Andy
C&C 40
Peregrine

Andrew Burton
61 W Narragansett
Newport, RI
USA    02840

http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
+401 965-5260

On Nov 29, 2013, at 14:16, "Gary Nylander" <gnylan...@atlanticbb.net> wrote:

> I'm with Curtis on this one. I seldom reef because we are mostly in light air. I drop from the 155 to the 140 when there are full whitecaps (15?) and then reef at about 20. Don't have a second reef, so if it is blowing harder than low 20's, I go to the working jib.
>
> My working jib is probably original to the boat (1980) - when I bought her, it was very new feeling (crinkly) and seldom gets out of the bag.....it is a Hood, which I understand was original equipment. The two PO's were up a river 10 miles from the Bay, so I think there was a fair amount of light air sailing - and motoring.
>
> There's something amiss if you have to reef at 10 knots - either your sails are so bagged out that the boat is falling over or the mast is set incorrectly. The 30-1 is a stout craft.... it takes a lot of breeze to get it squirrely enough that I am worried about rounding up.
>
> Gary
> 30-1 # 593
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Curtis" <cpt.b...@gmail.com>
> To: <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2013 9:08 AM
> Subject: Re: Stus-List 30 MKI weather helm
>
>
> yea i'm with Ddwight on this one,
> My C&C30 mk1 # 675 loves 11 thru17 knots.
> I dont start thinking of a reef till i'm over 17 knots. I usley drop
> down to the working 115% first. If needed I will put the 1st Reef in
> around 18-22 knots.
> I have hade some uncontroled steering falling off the wind when
> tacking. that was my fault. not the boat.
>
> 1981 C&C 30 MK1 #675
>
> Beaufort, Sc.
>
>
>
> On 11/26/13, dwight <dwight...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I don't think you should have to reef that soon.what is the rake on your
>> mast
>>
>>
>>
>>  _____
>>
>> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Aaron
>> Rouhi
>> Sent: November 26, 2013 7:31 PM
>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List 30 MKI weather helm
>>
>>
>>
>> MK1 is stiff for sure but I just wish I had less weather helm. I generally
>> reef in anything above 10 knots...
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Aaron R.
>>
>> Admiral Maggie,
>>
>> 1979 C&C 30 MK1 #540
>>
>> Annapolis, MD
>>
>>
>>
>>  _____
>>
>> Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 18:46:07 -0400
>> From: dwight...@gmail.com
>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List 30 MKI weather helm
>>
>> The 30 MKI is just a much stiffer boat than the 30 MKII; see here:
>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/technical/stability.htm
>>
>> I believe that makes a huge difference in how these 2 very different C&C 30
>> designs perform going to weather, I believe this definitely has an effect
>> on
>> heel angle and propensity to round up...I would expect the 30 MKII to
>> outperform the 30 MKI in light air but in heavier air I would expect the
>> MKI
>> to outperform the MKII, even given that in most areas the MKII has a higher
>> rated speed potential and I believ that is due to the relative stiffnesses
>> of the boats...here on St. Margaret's Bay where we have mostly fresher
>> afternoon breezes the MKI rules
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Dwight Veinot
>>
>> Alianna
>> C&C 35 MKII
>>
>> Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 5:11 PM, Bill Coleman <colt...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>> Around the late 70's and early eighties the 20's and 39's were all getting
>> new, deeper rudders.  The swept back keels didn't / don't help.
>>
>>
>>
>> Bill Coleman
>>
>> C&C 39 animated_favicon1
>>
>>
>>
>> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of dwight
>> veinot
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2013 2:48 PM
>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List 30 MKI weather helm
>>
>>
>>
>> I don't think it will ever sail as good as the MKI but there are other
>> advantages
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Dwight Veinot
>>
>> Alianna
>> C&C 35 MKII
>>
>> Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 2:29 AM, Robert Gallagher <trys...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> My 30MKI had the mast raked back and the rigging on the tight side. Weather
>> helm yes, it could be a bear. Round ups never.  I could bury the rail deep
>> and just keep plowing along.
>> My 30MKII's rudder will stall then round up out of control with to much
>> sail
>> up and not enough tension on the backstay.  Too much heel and it gets
>> scary.
>>
>> All that being said im still learning on my MKII
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________ This List is provided by
>> the
>> C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>>
>>  _____
>>
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 2012.0.2247 / Virus Database: 3629/6368 - Release Date: 11/26/13
>
>
> --
> “Sailors, with their built in sense of order, service and discipline,
> should really be running the world.” - Nicholas Monsarrat
>
> _______________________________________________
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com

_______________________________________________
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com



--
Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
C&C 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC

_______________________________________________ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com

_______________________________________________
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
_______________________________________________
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Reply via email to