Just to clarify that I am not a complete novice- I have raced dinghies (OK, 470 and 505) in local, national and international events, but that was 40 years ago. I am still refreshing my rules and I know it is a constant learning process. As pointed out, it is often not as clear as one would like and depends on perspective. I was pretty sure I had right of way, but had never been in that situation before. The other skipper never said a word when I told him I had rights and room, but finally gave me room at the last possible moment before we would have had to go head to wind to not T-bone him.
As to RC screw ups- that is part of the story I did not tell that made it a “fun” race. It was actually our regular Wednesday night keel boat series. We were first to the windward mark and then were informed by another boat that we had missed a mark. It turned out that the RC had hand written with a magic marker a Delta in the mark sequence (there was no delta placard for good reason) to indicate an inflatable mark offset to windward that we were supposed to go around. We had not seen the delta and would not have known what it meant anyway. It further turns out that the RC was looking at an old version of the Sailing Instructions and the current version had indicated that the mark should have been an “A” (there was no Delta as a valid mark). So we went back to the delta mark and for that reason were at the back of the fleet when we got to the windward mark again and had the rounding issue. That far behind, I was not going to make a big issue of rights, but the other boat should have had the same mindset (not sure why he was so far behind). So if I had understood everything that had happened, I could have protested the RC for setting an illegal mark. However the events were only reconstructed after we got back to the club and at that point it was too late to protest. I learned a lot from all that and now have all the sailing instructions etc. on board to be able to check things on the fly. But- I make a very strong effort to only do this for fun. So to have the entire race thrown out because of the RC screw up would not have been in the spirit of fun as I define it. Dave On Aug 20, 2014, at 7:41 AM, Andrew Burton via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > I think the race should have been invalid. The RC screwed up. And I can't > imagine the carnage in rounding the mark to port and then trying to get past > all the boats approaching it! > > Andy > C&C 40 > Peregrine > > Andrew Burton > 61 W Narragansett > Newport, RI > USA 02840 > > http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/ > +401 965-5260 > > On Aug 20, 2014, at 6:29, Indigo via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > >> Agree. If you race - even in "fun" races you should know the rules - >> especially those that are designed to prevent expensive accidents. On mark >> roundings I believe the hardest part is determining when and who entered the >> 3 boat length zone first and whether an overlap existed but even this gets >> easier if one remembers that if there is any doubt, it is assumed the inside >> boat was overlapped and thus has rights. >> >> Here is another rule quandary that happened at our club recently >> >> RC sets up the line with the pin on its port side. Triangular course - >> clockwise - twice round. Boats 1, 2 & 3 lead to the windward mark- remember >> the pin was to port at the start and round the windward mark to port - >> effectively turning through more than 360 degrees to head off on the reach >> to the next mark. Boat 4 remembers the "taught string rule" ( not crossing >> ones wake) and rounds to starboard. After the first mark, all boats round >> subsequent marks to starboard >> >> What would the outcome be should it have gone to protest? >> >> -- >> Jonathan >> Indigo C&C 35III >> SOUTHPORT CT >> >> On Aug 20, 2014, at 6:04, dwight via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: >> >>> Alan, you make it sound simple enough as does Andrew in quoting Rule 18…if >>> it were that simple my question then is; why did David say in his write up, >>> I did not know who had rights. Probably the other boat did not know who >>> had rights either, yet Rule 18 is not that difficult to understand as it is >>> written on paper and your explanation is easy to understand >>> too…understanding of the written rule and application of the rule on the >>> water at mark roundings is, on the other hand, often a judgement call…not >>> having knowledge of the rules or how they apply on the water or maybe even >>> having that knowledge but pushing the limits of the rule can cause >>> unecessary collisions…like I said earlier the issue is not so crystal clear >>> to me from Davids recollection of what happened but it is troublesome that >>> he did not know who had rights and maybe the same could be said for the >>> other boat yet they were still out there sailing rather expensive vessels >>> on a possible collision course in close proximity to one another…we all >>> know that sailboats don’t have very good brakes and they carry a lot of >>> momentum…it is very good however that one boat finally did give way and no >>> collision happened…racing rules can work but all sailors need to know and >>> understand how they apply in given situations and they need to obey the >>> rules or else they should take a break from racing and do some >>> study…knowledge of the rules at the start, at crossings on course and mark >>> roundings are particularly critical because that is where most collion >>> possibilities are encountered. I do not know anything about David’s racing >>> experience but I am hoping that this event and the discussion we have had >>> here will encourage him to study the rules so that he never has to say >>> again, I did not know who had rights, and I hope we all know that we must >>> take all possible action to avoid collision with another boat regardless of >>> who has rights according to the rules of racing >>> >>> Dwight Veinot >>> C&C 35MKII, Alianna >>> Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS >>> >>> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Alan >>> Bergen via CnC-List >>> Sent: August 20, 2014 2:31 AM >>> To: C&C Photoalbum email list >>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Racing rules at marks >>> >>> Actually, you had an inside overlap. There is no requirement for boats to >>> be in close proximity to one another for an overlap to exist. You were >>> clear ahead until the other boat established an overlap to windward of you. >>> The only way for the other boat to have had rights would be if it became >>> clear ahead before either of you had entered the zone. Since you both >>> entered the zone at around the same time, you had an inside overlap, and >>> rights at the mark. >>> >>> Alan Bergen >>> 35 Mk III Thirsty >>> Rose City YC >>> Portland, OR >>> >>> I am hoping that someone can clarify the actual rules related to an >>> incident that I was involved in last weekend. The race was a “fun” race, >>> so no yelling, but I did not know who had rights. We had huge wind shifts >>> approaching the windward mark and I was in a position where I was close >>> hauled, just making the mark (to port) on starboard tack. A much larger >>> boat was approaching the mark also on starboard tack but from a different >>> direction. He had vastly over stood the mark due to the wind shift so he >>> was coming in on a reach and due to get there at the same time as me. We >>> both entered the zone around the mark at about the same time although he >>> was going faster so it was hard to tell. After several polite requests, he >>> gave me inside room. Who has rights in that situation since there was >>> never really an overlap until we both got to the mark? Thanks- Dave >>> Aries >>> 1990 C&C 34+ >>> New London, CT >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 2014.0.4716 / Virus Database: 4007/8059 - Release Date: 08/18/14 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album >>> >>> Email address: >>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com >>> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of >>> page at: >>> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album >> >> Email address: >> CnC-List@cnc-list.com >> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of >> page at: >> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com >> > _______________________________________________ > This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album > > Email address: > CnC-List@cnc-list.com > To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page > at: > http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com > Dr. David Knecht Professor of Molecular and Cell Biology Core Microscopy Facility Director University of Connecticut Storrs, CT 06269 860-486-2200
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