My Navtec hydraulic back stay adjuster started leaking/slipping a few years ago 
after ~ 17 yrs of reliable operation. In the farming area of eastern NC where I 
live, there are many hydraulic shops since just about every farm implement uses 
hydraulic pistons--often many on the same tractor.

All new seals, piston/sleeve polished, etc. more or less like new for ~ $260.

Hydraulic technology is much broader than the relatively small but effective 
uses it is put to in sailing vessels!

Sending what is a relatively standard piston back to Navtec ensures a high 
repair cost but not necessarily a better repair.

Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
1995 C&C 36 XL/kcb


to be much broader

Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 8, 2014, at 6:26 PM, Tim Goodyear via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> I'm happy with my hydraulic setup.  I think I got pretty good service out of 
> the Navtec units, and the failures were slight leaks, not catastrophes.  I do 
> think the cascading tackle is viable with high tech line and blocks / rings 
> led to a manual cam cleat (not winch).  This is very much a new school setup 
> (or maybe it's just come around again).
> 
> Tim
> 
>> On Oct 8, 2014, at 5:46 PM, John Pennie <j...@svpaws.net> wrote:
>> 
>> I’ve heard so many bad stories about hydraulic backstay adjusters that I 
>> don’t doubt them.  Having said that I never had a problem with one on three 
>> boats over 15 years.  Certainly not the type of failure you’re referring to. 
>>  
>> 
>> Without a split  backstay your options are limited.  Personally I consider 
>> the mechanical adjusters to be worthless.  Just too slow and not enough 
>> power… and a nuisance as others mentioned.  You could go very old school and 
>> try very beefy blocks led to a dedicated winch but that has its own set of 
>> problems and cost.  Short of that, its hydraulic - either self contained 
>> units or components which are even more expensive.  I can’t say I’ve heard 
>> much difference from brand N to S.  
>> 
>> After 25 years you may want to cut the Navtec unit a little slack.  A new 
>> unit is probably your best option.  Of course, you could say the hell with 
>> it a just put a turnbuckle in.  Depends how you use the boat.
>> 
>> John
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Oct 8, 2014, at 5:32 PM, Tim Goodyear via CnC-List 
>>> <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Bruno,
>>> 
>>> Have you considered a cascade system?  I was racing on a friends boat 
>>> earlier this year and he was going to pull out because his backstay was 
>>> still at Navtec being re-built...  We rigged up a cascade system using 
>>> existing parts / line I had on Mojito; varying sizes of Amsteel, high load 
>>> guy blocks and a vang I'd put together while my vang was being rebuilt by 
>>> Navtec (there's a theme here somewhere).  It worked out at 24:1 (2:1 x 2:1 
>>> x 6:1), which would get you 2400 lbs tension with a 100lb pull.  Below is a 
>>> link to a 24:1 version and a Beneteau 36.7 I sailed on had a 48:1 like the 
>>> Harken.  With only a single attachment point there is a risk of tangles 
>>> versus the multiple chain plates, but Amsteel is slippery stuff, so as long 
>>> as you get the block reeving right it should be OK.
>>> 
>>> http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?11645-Hydraulic-to-Cascading-Backstay-Upgrade
>>> http://www.harken.com/DeckLayout.aspx?id=14795
>>> 
>>> Tim
>>> Mojito
>>> C&C 35-3
>>> Branford, CT
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 5:14 PM, Bruno Lachance via CnC-List 
>>>> <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>>> The 33 is not split backstay, maybe some late models have them but not 
>>>> mine. 
>>>>  
>>>> I can not beleive there is not a better reliable system on the market. 
>>>> anybody with direct experience of the Wichard mechanical wiht ratchet ? i 
>>>> don't even know if the handle pumps up and down or rotates with some sort 
>>>> of relief system hence the ratchet ??? same question about power, but the 
>>>> numbers indicate it would be more than appropriate for my boat.
>>>>  
>>>> I'm worried to dump more money into hydrolic and be a the same point in a 
>>>> year or two. Worse case scenario i lost the rig, i had to jury something 
>>>> this summer offshore in 25 knots plus when the thing blew on my transom. 
>>>> not fun at all. i bought a spare turnbucle after that one and went on with 
>>>> my vacations.
>>>>  
>>>> thanks for inputs
>>>>  
>>>> Bruno Lachance
>>>> C&C 33 mkII
>>>> Becassine
>>>>  
>>>> Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2014 16:45:20 -0400
>>>> To: kevindrisc...@gmail.com; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>>>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Backstay aduster
>>>> From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> My 2 cents:
>>>> I don't think the 33 is a split backstay.  The cost to split it and 
>>>> install new chain plates would probably exceed the cost of a hydraulic 
>>>> unit.
>>>> With a masthead rig I would want more power than you can get with a manual 
>>>> adjuster.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Joel
>>>> 35/3
>>>> Annapolis
>>>> 
>>>> On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 4:33 PM, Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List 
>>>> <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>>> I second the split back with tackle/cam cleat apparatus suggestion. I race 
>>>> a bit with it and Find it straight forward and quick adjusting. Pretty 
>>>> direct feedback on rig tension.
>>>> 
>>>> KD
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On October 8, 2014, at 1:13PM, John Pennie via CnC-List wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> For a 33 you may want to consider one of the fittings that ride on a split 
>>>> backstay from Johnson.  Not nearly as eloquent but effective and probably 
>>>> the best value.
>>>> 
>>>> John
>>>> 
>>>> On Oct 8, 2014, at 4:06 PM, Jack Fitzgerald via CnC-List 
>>>> <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> If you race your boat you will find the mechanical back stay adjuster to 
>>>> be a complete PITA.
>>>> 
>>>> I have a stainless steel Barient back stay adjuster (5/8" pins and uses a 
>>>> winch handle to adjust) that came with my boat back in 1975 to be used in 
>>>> case the original Meriman hydraulic adjusters failed. It did indeed fail 
>>>> and we rigged the Barient and it took all that one could do to crank in 
>>>> enough tension just to straighten the mast 
>>>> 
>>>> Jack Fitzgerald
>>>> HONEY
>>>> C&C 39 TM
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 3:12 PM, Bruno Lachance via CnC-List 
>>>> <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>  
>>>> I sent my navtec backstay for a rebuild at Southshore and it seems the 
>>>> over 25 years thing is dammaged (scratch on pump cylinder, not fixable, it 
>>>> still leaks). I'm looking at options and the two on the list are: replace 
>>>> it by the exact same thing (Navtec) or screw hydrolic and go with the 
>>>> mechanical option. Would be a Wichard product, the one with a ratchet or 
>>>> handle with no ratchet, not the wheel.
>>>>  
>>>> any opinions on that decision would be appreciated regarding reliability 
>>>> and performance (i like to play with that toy!) would a mechanical be too 
>>>> slow to adjust?
>>>>  
>>>> Thanks
>>>>  
>>>> Bruno Lachance
>>>> C&C 33 mkII
>>>> Becassine
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
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>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> Joel 
>>>> 301 541 8551
>>>> 
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