I have a Xantrex charging system and the Blue Sea ACR switch for sale here:
https://daytona.craigslist.org/bpo/6055918718.html <https://daytona.craigslist.org/bpo/6055918718.html> and here: https://daytona.craigslist.org/bpo/6055917644.html <https://daytona.craigslist.org/bpo/6055917644.html> Steve Roberts Pearl, 80 CNC 36 CB Palm Coast, FL > On Mar 22, 2017, at 4:57 PM, Gary Russell via CnC-List > <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > > Hi Josh, > I don't use a 1-all-2 battery switch. I hate them. I use a > Blue Sea Systems Dual Battery Bank Management Panel > http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|328|2290000|2290006&id=151145 > <http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|328|2290000|2290006&id=151145> > with an ACR. The Blue Sea Battery Panel has separate switches for both > banks and a switch to combine the batteries. > > Gary > > ~~~~~~~_/)~~~~~~ > > > On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 4:38 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List > <cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote: > Gary, > > How do anticipate switching the house to start...and not having that option > in reverse? With the typical OEM 1,All,2 switches we're stuck with batteries > in parallel. With the Don Casey method either battery can be disconnected > and the loads cross-tied. > > I think I recall the reason for putting the house as primary. During the > bulk charge phase the ACR or echo-charge are disconnected which means that > the full charge current is applied to the primary battery. If you had a > larger house and a tiny start battery and your alternator or other charge > source was sized for the larger house capacity to minimize charge duration > then you would be able to exceed the max charge current of your start battery > (if it was setup as the primary) until it was up to 13 and the ACR closed in. > With a sufficiently large difference in size and a significantly discharged > house battery after the ACR closed in you could create a situation where the > start battery voltage would be pulled down enough to immediately reopen the > ACR. None of this is an issue in Bruce's case since both batteries are the > same size. He will also probably find that his alternator is attached to the > Off, 1,All,2 switch such that the alternator simply goes to whichever battery > is selected. > > Josh > > > On Wed, Mar 22, 2017, 3:46 PM Gary Russell via CnC-List > <cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote: > Hi Josh, > I had read that the Primary battery should be the House battery but I > don't recall the article describing why. However, with the House battery as > primary, you can always switch to it to start the engine should the Start > battery fail. If the Start battery is Primary and fails, the ACR may not be > able to charge the House battery and you are out of options to start the > engine. > > Gary > S/V Kaylarah > '90 C&C 37+ > East Greenwich, RI, USA > > ~~~~~~~_/)~~~~~~ > > > On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 2:02 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List > <cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote: > You have two different load requirements. First and most important is when > the boat is on the mooring. You'll want the bilge pump to work > automatically. That's all. You're not running any other loads when you're > not there. 50w is sufficient to keep the batteries topped up and handle the > occasional bilge pump. Be aware that 50w panels make ~4.2amps at 12v under > perfect conditions. Aim the panel, clean, no shade, high noon, at the > equator, no atmospheric blockages. My 100w panels rarely make more than > 6amps but are not meeting hardly any of the perfect conditions. If we assume > that your 50w will produce 3amps and the batteries are in good condition and > the bilge only needs occasionally pumped (no major mast, deck, or shaft seal > leaks) then 3 amps will keep up... with little margin. The solar may create > current for more than 8 hours and it may exceed 3amps, but for estimating > sake lets assume 24 Ah and then round down to 20Ah per day. > > Your second load requirement is while sailing/cruising. That's all the rest > of the electronics and navigation lights. 50w is a completely insufficient. > But... While you're "using" the boat you are also running the engine to get > in and out of port (or on and off the hook). The alternator is making up for > the used energy at a minimum of 30amps. This is usually very sufficient. > Your house battery is ~100Ah and you'll want to avoid discharging it more > than 50% (50Ah). Less than 80% full is the only condition in which the > alternator will charge at full current so basically 30Ah (50% to 80%) or 1 > hour of engine operation, which between coming in and going out is not hard > to imagine. > > The controller you've selected is larger than necessary. Your 50w panel is > NEVER going to produce more than 5 amps. The BlueSolar is 3x larger than > needed. I would suggest looking a Genasun gv-4. It is appropriately sized > for your panel. > https://genasun.com/all-products/solar-charge-controllers/for-lead/gv-4-pb-4a-solar-charge-controller/ > > <https://genasun.com/all-products/solar-charge-controllers/for-lead/gv-4-pb-4a-solar-charge-controller/> > > Genasun has a design heritage from MIT's solar car competition. The gv-4 > doesn't use electrolitic capacitors and is built to be marine grade. This > makes it ultra reliable. > > Many of the listers like the echo-charge. I'm sure it is a fine product but > I prefer an ACR. The echo-charge is only capable of charging at 15amps max. > An ACR will charge at full charge current. The solar, ACR, alternator, and > battery charger should all be attached to the starting battery. Once the > starting battery has reached its 80% full or greater voltage (~13.3v) the ACR > will CONNECT the house battery in parallel with the start battery and > continue to charge. This ensures that the most important battery gets > charged first and then they both get topped up and maintained equally. The > only caveat to the ACR being a "better" option is if you are using different > battery chemistries for start and house. But if that was the case then you'd > also have to have special charge controllers for your alternator, solar and > battery charger. Based on your description I have assumed that you are using > standard lead-acid batteries. > > All of this leaves the DC system vulnerable to a failure of the starting > battery. Under this setup there is no way to charge the house without the > starting battery and there is probably not already a good way of cross > connecting the house and start. The "All" position of Off,1,All,2 switches > just connects both batteries together. In a failed battery situation this > will draw down and possibly drain the house battery. Don Casey makes a good > argument for eliminating the Off,1,All,2 switches which are so popular. He > suggests single pole, single throw disconnect switches arranged to separate > each battery from their "bus" individually. Then you would use another > disconnect switch to cross-tie the busses. > https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00445KFZ2/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_eoQ0ybTYDYCR2 > <https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00445KFZ2/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_eoQ0ybTYDYCR2> > In the event of a failure of either your house or starting battery you could > use the switches to align your batteries to the appropriate loads. IMO, In > this setup you would want your ACR, alternator, charger, and solar all > attached to the starting battery BUS instead of the battery itself. Because > of the switch setup when/if your start battery failed you would open the > start battery disconnect and close the cross tie. All of the charging > circuits would now be connected to the house battery with no need to consider > how it would be charged. > > There is some disagreement about which battery should be the "primary" and > which should be "secondary". Primary being where all the charging sources > come in, secondary being the battery which gets charged by the echo-charge or > ACR. Above all, I want my starting battery to get charged. In my mind it is > always first. In the attached picture, Don Casey has drawn what I described. > The picture I attached shows the starting battery as the secondary and the > alternator being directly tied to the house battery - not on a switch. This > avoids blowing the alternator diodes should a switch be inadvertently opened > during engine operation but doesn't solve the reliability problem in the case > of a primary battery failure. > > I'm not sure that it significantly matters but hopefully someone will chime > in on the merits of having the house battery as the "primary" and hopefully > also the merits of having the alternator directly connected. > > Good luck, > Josh Muckley > S/V Sea Hawk > 1989 C&C 37+ > Solomons, MD > > On Mar 22, 2017 11:23 AM, "Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List" > <cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote: > On our 27 MKIII we mounted a semi flexible pane that could be walked on to > the sliding hatch and tied in a small charge controller and battery combiner. > We kept 2 series 24s and a series 27 charged on a mooring in Chicago for 10 > years this way. It kept the panel out of the way and we just tied the boom > off to one side when we left the boat. > > Kindest Regards, > > Bruce > 847.404.5092 <tel:(847)%20404-5092> > > Please forgive any typos as this was sent from my iPhone. > > On Mar 22, 2017, at 10:37 AM, Edd Schillay via CnC-List > <cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote: > >> Tom, >> >> Sounds like a good system. The only different thing I have in my setup is a >> Blue Seas ACR instead of the Echo charger. See: >> https://www.bluesea.com/products/7610/SI-ACR_Automatic_Charging_Relay_-_12_24V_DC_120A >> >> <https://www.bluesea.com/products/7610/SI-ACR_Automatic_Charging_Relay_-_12_24V_DC_120A> >> >> >> Works VERY well. >> >> Another factor is the placement of the solar panel. A shadow from a boom >> will give you a significant drop in volts. >> >> Smith sailing to Snow Goose! Rest in Peace Artie Karpf. >> >> All the best, >> >> Edd >> >> >> Edd M. Schillay >> Starship Enterprise >> C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B >> City Island, NY >> Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log <http://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> On Mar 22, 2017, at 10:27 AM, Thomas Delaney via CnC-List >>> <cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Listers, >>> >>> Snow Goose spent the last 20 years docked in a slip with shore power, and >>> I'm moving her to a mooring. I plan on adding a solar system to recharge my >>> batteries during the week. >>> >>> The boat will primarily be raced/daysailed, and occasionally overnighted, >>> on the weekends. My power draws are an automatic bilge pump, sailing >>> instruments, a chart plotter, and the freshwater tank pressure pump. I have >>> two 79AH Group 24 AGM batteries onboard, one in each bank, wired to a 4 way >>> selector switch. >>> >>> My plan is to install a 50W 12V Monocrystalline Solar Panel connected to a >>> BlueSolar MPPT 75/15 controller, and connect them to the house battery. I >>> am planning on installing a Xantrex Echo Charger between the house battery >>> and the starter battery. >>> >>> Does this system make sense? I've read mixed reviews about the Echo >>> Charger, but I can't find a better way of charging two batteries from a >>> single panel/MPPT controller. Is there a different setup that makes more >>> sense? >>> >>> Thanks and best, >>> Tom >>> >>> --- >>> Snow Goose >>> C&C 35 Mk I >>> City Island, NY >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you >>> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: >>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray <https://www.paypal.me/stumurray> >>> >>> All Contributions are greatly appreciated! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish >> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: >> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray <https://www.paypal.me/stumurray> >> >> All Contributions are greatly appreciated! > > _______________________________________________ > > This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish > to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: > https://www.paypal.me/stumurray <https://www.paypal.me/stumurray> > > All Contributions are greatly appreciated! > > > _______________________________________________ > > This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish > to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: > https://www.paypal.me/stumurray <https://www.paypal.me/stumurray> > > All Contributions are greatly appreciated! > > > _______________________________________________ > > This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish > to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: > https://www.paypal.me/stumurray <https://www.paypal.me/stumurray> > > All Contributions are greatly appreciated! > > _______________________________________________ > > This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish > to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: > https://www.paypal.me/stumurray <https://www.paypal.me/stumurray> > > All Contributions are greatly appreciated! > > > _______________________________________________ > > This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. 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