Thanks Rob, I will inspect as you suggest. I have also had a few people suggest that I may be looking in the wrong area and that the problem may simply be that the keel bolts are too loose - not loose enough that the keel to sump bonding has failed but loose enough that the keel is moving against the sump. I will head to the boat today and check the bolt torque if I can find a sufficiently deep socket. Will report back to the group as soon as I have more info.
Regards, Chris On Mon, 20 Apr 2020 at 08:41, Robert Abbott <robertabb...@eastlink.ca> wrote: > Chris: > > Inside, check grid structures and interior pans for cracks, from the pics > I think I can see some cracks. Probe all grid, pan, floor, step, and > bulkhead bonds with your flexible blade. > > Should your inspection reveal hull damage or weakness, you’ll need to deal > with this first. Corrective measures depend entirely on the problem, but if > the damage is serious, you will probably have to remove the keel. In > addition to grinding away and replacing any fractured or delaminated glass, > a full repair will also necessitate additional reinforcing members and/or > additional layers of fiberglass to strengthen the damaged areas. > > The mast compression is not as serious but nevertheless needs to be > addressed as well.....removal of the old and a complete rebuild is > necessary. > > Given what you have described and the pics, I agree with Joe, not a good > idea to go sailing and possibly have the keel fall off. > > The cost of a professional repair would probably be as much as the boat is > worth....how much personal time and effort you are prepared to put into it, > only you can determine. > > Keep us informed. > > Rob Abbott > > > > > On 4/19/2020 10:43 PM, Chris Bennett wrote: > > Hi Rob, > > I do have pictures but do not know how best to post them to this forum so > I will upload them to my google drive. This is the shareable link: > https://drive.google.com/open?id=1qEfA4WHGKMVUk6bKch9X4-hXn76AR46C > > The issue I believe from examining the bilge area is that my C&C 24 has > stiffeners (what would be floors in a wooden boat) that help prevent the > hull from flexing too much when the keel is put in stress (say when beating > to windward) and that the bonding of some of these stiffeners to the hull > may have failed. I see signs of this in three of the 'floors'. The > surveyor said that the issue is general hull flexing, not any cracking or > failure of the lead keel to fibreglass joint. > > I named the pictures that you should (hopefully) be able to download from > the above link as descriptively as I could. I use the term floors to refer > to the transverse reinforcing areas. The floors at the forward end and aft > end of the bilge are solid 'boxes'that have no issues. The other 3 floors > (floors 2 to 4) from forward to aft are as follows (see overview picture > and detailed pics): > > 2) The mast step floor. The plywood appears to have sunken and partly > delaminated and pulled away from the sides. There is a resin and fibreglass > strap that runs over the plywood cross piece and outboard at least 8 > inches. The glass does not seem very thick on this one. See the pictures > that show a clear curve that has cracked the base of the compression post > casting. I shimmed this up last year but did not address the real issue. > > 3) A U shaped center 'floor' that is basically a big strap of resin and > glass that runs down into the bilge and up the sides. The keel bolt goes > through this strap. The pictures show a crack on either side where the > strap attaches to the bilge base. Not sure how far the strap runs outboard > but at least 8 inches to where the hull liner cabin sole is bonded to the > hull. I cannot see how this would do much to stop the hull from flexing > > 4) Another plywood crosspiece with resin and glass strap over it. This > strap appears to no longer be bonded correctly to the hull in the pictures. > > I am thinking of reinforcing floors 2 and 4 perhaps adding a cross piece > and tabbing this better underneath as well as encapsulating in epoxy. > Perhaps a box made from a top crosspiece with two ends that resemble more > traditional (deeper) floors would be better if you can picture what I mean? > I would replace the mast step fitting with a plate and collar made of > aluminum since the original fitting does not appear to be available anymore > - the compression post is 2 inches in outer diameter roughly. I was also > thinking about adding deeper floors fore and aft of the center U shaped > strap but concerned this might introduce hard spots? > > To do any of this I suspect I will have to remove the teak and holly sole > and cut out with a multi tool or grinder a portion of the fibreglass sole > so as to gain access to the outboard ends to allow for suitably wide floors > as well as making access much easier. The problem with this approach is > that this liner is bonded to the hull and contributes to the overall > strength so it would need to be replaced carefully so as to restore this > strength. > > A further constraint is to leave access to the keel bolts for tightening > or replacement and to the bilge for cleaning. > > Any suggestions and comments greatly appreciated! > > Regards, > Chris > > > On Sun, 19 Apr 2020 at 17:26, Robert Abbott <robertabb...@eastlink.ca> > wrote: > >> Chris, >> >> Trying to understand exactly what you are describing without a >> picture....are you saying the keel is tight to the keel box but the keel >> box is cracked from the hull? If there is no 'smile' and your keel moves >> 4" side to side, what else could it be? If I understand correctly, that's >> a big problem....you could loose your keel while sailing and that's a big >> problem. >> >> The compression post depressed is another problem and needs to be >> addressed for continued sailing. >> >> Can it be fixed...many things can be fixed but how much time and money >> are you willing to put into the boat. >> >> I'd call the surveyor back and ask him his opinion on the cost of a >> repair (if he would provide one, he might not, but he just might be an >> honest guy and tell you what you are in for even if you decide to do the >> repairs yourself). >> >> Rob Abbott >> AZURA >> C&C 32 - #277 >> Halifax, N.S. >> >> >> On 4/19/2020 5:39 PM, Chris Bennett via CnC-List wrote: >> >> Hi folks, >> >> I own Drifter, a C&C 24 from 1985. A recent survey by a potential buyer >> found that despite the keel being well attached (no 'smile' or obvious >> issues with the sump to keel joint) the keel moves up to 4 inches from side >> to side while the boat is hanging in the slings. The surveyor attributed >> this to failed bonding of the hull liner to the hull. He also noted that >> the compression post step had subsided and the cast aluminum compression >> post base was cracked on both sides. >> >> I would like to repair the boat and was wondering if anyone else has >> experienced and addressed these issues? >> >> Thanks! >> >> Chris Bennett >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and >> every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use >> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray >> >> >> >
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