With the computer power we now have, PHRF can produce Spin, non-Spin,
W/L and Random (around the buoys) ratings. There are also formulas to
adjust the rating given wind conditions (low, med, and high) which can
be applied pre or post race. And Time-on-Distance (ToD) or Time-on-Time
(ToT) Systems.
The problem becomes the reluctance for the organizing authorities to
implement the varied adjustments (to hard/difficult) and the racers to
accept them (that is not the way we did it last year, I'm confused).
There is also the problem on how to handle sports and foiling boats,
i.e. those boats that are extremely maneuverable and can take off
(literally) in the right (higher) wind conditions.
Don Kern
/Fireball,/ C&C35 Mk2
Bristol, RI
On 9/11/2021 12:21 PM, Gary Nylander via CnC-List wrote:
I’m surprised that nobody has mentioned the Chesapeake Bay PHRF which
has adopted multiple ratings for boats. They have Circular/Random
ratings which cover the kinds of courses which run around government
marks and have all kinds of directions and they have W/L ratings for
those courses. Messy but trying to cover the bases. Th main issue is
they give all us old folks with old types of boats (read C&C) the same
ratings for all courses. That’s why more boats are racing CRCA and
CHESS (Ches Bay Short Handed). That’s why I don’t bother any more.
Gary
30-1
Maryland
*From:* David Risch via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
*Sent:* Saturday, September 11, 2021 7:14 AM
*To:* Stus-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
*Cc:* David Risch <davidrisc...@msn.com>
*Subject:* Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: C&C 33-II vs 35-II now race
course design
It was my understanding that PHRF ratings factored in reaching.
That said. 1 ¼ mile W/L course(s) on a sym 40’ got old real fast.
Needed 8 crew. And then burnt out that crew in a 4 race a day
regatta. No fun.
We stopped that silliness years ago.
Only long distance now.
*From:* Randal Stafford via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com
<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
*Sent:* Friday, September 10, 2021 10:58 PM
*To:* Stus-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
*Cc:* Randal Stafford <randal.staff...@icloud.com
<mailto:randal.staff...@icloud.com>>
*Subject:* Stus-List Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: C&C 33-II vs 35-II now race
course design
This debate has raged within Colorado Sail & Yacht Club for the last
several years. The J/22 racers argue that the larger PHRF boats
(spinnaker or not) should sail windward/leeward courses like they do.
The larger PHRF boats (including spinnaker boats) like reaching
because that’s when they’re fastest. And it’s not unusual for RC’s
best-laid plans to be ruined by mother nature (e.g. 180-degree wind
shifts after a race has started on a course around fixed buoys).
I conclude that a single rating number is a poor compromise across
multiple points of sail and a range of wind speeds - it’s like
estimating a surface with a point. I win when it’s blowing hard, but
get beat in light air by asym boats on broad reach. There’s no way a
single number can equalize boats across all possible courses and
conditions.
So as an experiment we’ve done what Donald Kern mentioned in another
reply - sometimes we make the J/22s and Capri 22s sail triangles in
addition to W/L, and the larger PHRF boats sail W/L in addition to
triangles, using long courses that combine course types. At the very
least it gives us some empathy for each other.
Cheers,
Randy Stafford
S/V Grenadine
C&C 30-1 #79
Ken Caryl, CO
On Sep 10, 2021, at 12:49 PM, Andrew Burton via CnC-List
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
Joe, Kenny Read agrees with you. He wrote an article to that
effect some months ago.
Andy
Andrew Burton
26 Beacon Hill
Newport, RI
USA 02840
+401 965 5260
https://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsites.google.com%2Fsite%2Fandrewburtonyachtservices%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C98abfc3dd057440bf72608d974cff4d4%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637669258781247860%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=SpoWl0d2tzPn6XnPxW50Fvlw7wqhqrXt4N0EkPf0SF4%3D&reserved=0>
On Sep 10, 2021, at 12:35, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
I have been in races that were almost 100% downwind or 100%
upwind, thanks to perfect timing of wind shifts. Somehow it
worked out and the PHRF ratings are what they are and we dealt
with it.
I know many people disagree, but IMHO making big boat racing
resemble dinghy racing and making dinghy racing a science
experiment with perfect upwind and downwind legs has not been
a good thing at all. I once had 3 dinghy fleets and sent the
Lasers reaching up the river a bit to deconflict them with the
other fleets and I never heard so much whining – we can’t sail
on a REACH! It turned out you actually can if the RC makes you 😃
YMMV
Joe
Coquina
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Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the
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